Judaism "lacks a culture of civil disagreement"? The whole history of Judaism is disagreement, debate, dialogue, argumentation. Rabbis have argued over the meaning of the laws for thousands of years. Dispute and debate is an intrinsic part of Jewish culture and religious identity. I once heard Baroness Neuberger dismiss the idea of a Jewish conspiracy as *a priori* implausible; "as if we could agree on ANYTHING!"
Was the implication not that they lack a culture of civil disagreement with others? They perhaps like debate within the family, but their response to criticism from outside, particularly with Northern Europeans, is usually neurotic not rational. Absolutely no debate about the holocaust is tolerated, for example. Even some criticism of Israeli policy is labelled as antisemitic. Many are quick to use the antisemitic card too, a clear ploy to stifle debate and write off even thoughtful opponents as extremists. This happens quite frequently and prominently.
I think systematic and universal persecution over thousands of years suggests that the reaction to criticism is not neurotic and I generally think the idea that antisemitism is overplayed, is overplayed. You can see otherwise normal rational people saying things about Jews and Judaism that they wouldn’t dream of saying about any other minority.
Before I sobered up, I got thrown out of at least 109 bars and parties. Since I quit drinking (nearly 30 years ago) and took responsibility for my bad behavior, I haven't been booted from a single establishment. There's a lesson in there if you're willing to hear it.
Before you sobered up, you were a fucking asshole. After you sobered up, you are still a Jew Hating asshole. I tell you what, fuckstain, since all of you dumb fucks give this "109 countries" bullshit. I will send you $100 if you can NAME these supposed "109 countries." I'll keep my money, because you can't, you fucking loser. Do you still sleep in Mommy's bed at night and play Special Little Half-Hard Soldier with her? God, you losers are tedious.
I think many people would argue the opposite. In Western nations there seem to be no other identifiable groups who have a special term to describe criticism of them, and have wielded it so effectively and comprehensively. The Muslims have begun to use the term Islamophobia in a similar way, as a method to stave off criticism, although with less success.
Antisemitism is almost unique, and, again, the very widespread perception is it has been overused to such an extent people are becoming exhausted with those who do so. Western nations are passing laws to attempt to make "antisemitism" illegal. This seem unprecedented. It is also causing a backlash as people ask why this group should be above criticism.
Until you stop using J-e-w and Israel interchangeably you aren’t helping. The nation was divided. They have stayed divided and sent into separate captivities. Israel and then Judah were scattered and divorced divorced.
Almost everyone uses these terms to describe practitioners of judaism and ignore the ten tribes who went into anonymity. The Shemites were scattered, there names changed, and then they are forgotten while they are erased from history and strangers appropriate their name. https://godskingdom.org/studies/books/the-struggle-for-the-birthright/
I will tell you why, fuckhead. Because Perpetual Losers and Failures at life, who come from a long line of fucking losers, always look for someone to blame. Often, the object of their ire is the hardworking (to the loser, "lucky") Jew in town who makes the loser feel like what he is, a loser. Whenever a critical mass of losers gets together and spouts Jew Hating bullshit at one another, they then lash out in pogroms. I just told you, loser fuckhead and you, loser who probably fucks his own mother for basement rent, are a typical Jew Hating Coward who won't even post your bullshit under a real name.
I thought so, Anonymous Coward Pussy. Muting you. Not blocking - because you may get your head out from between your mother's thighs long enough to learn something from your betters. That would be ALL we people.
Lorenzo is a loser. This is my last response to this ignorant bigot's stupid rehash of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Bondi Beach Edition. If my grandmother and the three before her were all worn-out whores, I'd try to deflect attention from my own failures, as well. I used to live in Sydney and get there occasionally for business. I'll give Lorenzo a heads up, so he can test his "Jews are weak" theory. What a fanny this scumbag is.
Chris, I am generally on your side; in this case, I think a bit more introspection might be worthwhile. I have been following Lorenzo for some time and have found him to be very thoughtful. In this case, I would like to know more about his accusations. Certainly I know that some Jews can be intemperate on things - when you see, over and over, the eagerness of people to hate you and try to kill you, you get very sensitive to it. That some of us might be overreacting to threats is certainly possible, and that some of that overreaction might tire some of our potential allies is possible.
I'm not saying that I agree, but it is at least worth considering.
I do think that antisemitism is different, as it generally doesn't start with "Jews do X so I hate them" but rather, "I hate Jews, so I believe that they do X." Prager and Telushkin's book, "Why the Jews" makes a very good case for this phenomenon, and those I see ramping up the hatred are almost always inclined to hate us for the reasons they cited, plus one more than wasn't current when they wrote it: CRT and its implications.
But I rather think that the major reason that antisemitism has increased so much is a combination of CRT and the money sent to the universities by Qatar and other countries that are true believers in radical Islam.
BTW, I would point out that it wasn't Jews who invented the term "antisemitism": it was promoted by Wilhelm Marr, who found that hating people for their religion wasn't acceptable in his time, but hating them for their ethnicity was perfectly fine.
I’ve got all the introspection I need. This Jew Hating shitbird @Lorenzo Warby is not worth the trouble. What is this shit? “Hey, I think some Jewish people maybe were not nice, so the girls at the Nova festival who were gang raped until their spines snapped and they died deserved it.”
Fuck Lorenzo and anyone who thinks his stupid ignorant bullshit is worth paying attention to.
You're about to be monstered, Lorenzo. Your post will turn out to be a self-fulfilling prophecy, although those who monster you will fail to see the paradoxical nature of their response. I shouldn't laugh, but I couldn't help it, and looking through the comments, some aspects of the post are certainly writ large.
He wishes he could be monstered. That would imply this piece has significance. It’s yards of blather to little effect. And the effect there is is garden variety bigotry.
"You attack people’s social connections under a guise—including to yourself—of moral and social concern. This makes the aggression more effective and hides from yourself, and others, that what you are doing is aggression."
Ooooh — big “gotcha,” little man. I recognize bigotry against us when I see it, even if it’s disguised with yards of superfluous, blah blah blah. Evidently you don’t.
Lol, you are reinforcing the views expressed in the article. To address the Jew hater comment, I grew up with Jews for most of my youth. I had many Jewish friends who I admired and looked up to. I am an avid supporter of Israels struggle against the Palestinian barbarians and have written articles showing why there will never be peace in the region.
Primarily due to Palestinian indoctrination, a destructive nationalism and Militant Islam.
This does not mean that Judaism or Jewish people that live on different waves of the political spectrum are or should be immune to criticism, or have it pointed out where Judaism or Jewish culture have cultivated particular traits that may or may not be in their interest and be seen by outsiders as against their interest, causing exasperation.
The article was a genuine attempt, pointing to features that are in certain circles, not necessarily circles that do not like Jews, blowing holes in support and by disinterest, people are retreating from a fight that they may feel has nothing to do with them.
Your response will only alienate supporters with your infantile and childish tantrums. Grow up.
Well stated, sir. Very similar to my own views. And many other people. I could count on one hand the number I have encountered who have some active dislike of Jews, and most of them are not white Europeans.
As Thomas Sowell once stated, when you are used to privilege, equal treatment can feel like prejudice. Some light scrutiny does everyone the world of good. But some groups do not operate with such good graces; scrutiny for thee but not for me, the point Warby was making.
I am so "grown up" that I realize there is no talking to lying losers like you. I only bother to respond, NOT for you because you can't fix stupid, but for anyone else who might be reading.
Muting you now. How is the dial up connection in Mom's basement, BTW?
Palestine was a thriving metropolis before 1948, look at the photographs 🤷♂️ They don't lie. You sound increasingly unhinged and detached from established reality.
There is no genocide of Fakestinians. One cannot “genocide” a landmass.
You know how to know there is no “genocide” of Fakestinians? There are still very many living, fat-assed, well-dressed Fakestinians in Gaza.
One thing our fans and detractors alike agree on is that Jews are good at what we do.
So if we WANTED to kill all the Fakestinians in Gaza, they would have been dead by 12 October 2023.
Hence - no genocide in Gaza.
Any other questions, Anonymous Coward Jew Hater? You all try this same “You’re overly sensitive” or “he touched a nerve,” but you’re too much of a pussy bitch to share your real name. Does Mommy let you come up from her basement to play “Special Snuggles We Don’t Tell Drunk Daddy Passed Out on the Couch About?” You know, the way you’ve been doing since you were eight?
Good at what, paedophilia? Israel has more sex criminals and perverts than any nation on earth. All you export is weapons , spyware, and pedophiles. Gtfoh 🤣
Never forget, maggot...when Iran PASTED Nevatim airbase with over thirty hypersonic missiles, bypassing the "Iron Dome", David's Sling, Arrow, Patriot Pac3, SM2 and SM6, they proved that they don't need nuclear warheads to wipe Israel off the map. They can simply carpet tiny little Israel with dirty bombs and strike Dimona, too...irradiating Israel for centuries. Bye bye "Jewish State", forever.
I *really* hope Israel.is stupid enough to attack Iran.
A fascinating piece. Here in Britain we are seeing the obsession with Palestine among the political class trigger exhaustion in the public. We don't care for the pro-Palestine or pro-Israel bias. Both emphasize how many alien ideas animate the political and media classes, not to mention their academic friends. It has triggered scrutiny on who is pushing these agendas.
It seems to be accelerating some kind of wake up call. At least among my own circle. On a broader note the use of extreme victim status for minorities, women, gays, trans and all the rest was never going to be a longterm success. Our whole mentality is based on some form of individualism and resilience. That's what we admire and aspire to.
The endless woe is me victimhood of entire groups who receive considerable privilege has tested our patience. I suspect it is not only the Jews who will feel the effects of this but everyone unable to maintain our societal norms, including the radical feminists and aggressive immigrant groups. Big changes ahead I suspect.
It is clear, however, the Jews truly have lost their place in the West. And it can't all be blamed on Muslim immigrants. The youth see them as oppressors. That was always a dangerous game to play. I suspect we will eventually see blowback against academia itself. How long before the leading universities are destroyed as instruments of imperial oppression? These are dangerous tools to unleash on the impressionable after all.
I agree. No great loss to humanity. I am familiar with the sector and they are truly lost. Every fad imaginable is entertained, and you sense the grownups are going along with it all so they will be shot last.
I think I may have been fortunate that I was exposed first to Jews, then to Israelis and only after that to Jewish activists.
I did find the activists continual claims that the Holocaust was uniquely evil to be irritating since it was trivially and obviously untrue. You could point to the Armenian genocide for one, and now I know enough to point to numerous others. That's not to say it wasn't evil - it was - the point is it wasn't unique. The activists never accept that and always "play the man not the ball" in attacking the person who says something like that rather than making a logical case for why the Holocaust was uniquely evil.
Mind you my experience with Israelis was also initially negative and, TBH, extremely reminiscent of my experience with Arabs. Basically I found both continually seeking to treat every interaction, every conversation sometimes, as a competition where one side and only one side "wins" with no concept of win-win. Specifically I noted that in business negotiations they always sought outrageous terms to begin with and frequently tried to stiff the other side at the end. A person I worked with in the early 2000s had a policy of always ensuring that in phased deals with new Israeli customers he always made money by the penultimate phase in the assumption that he was not going to get the final payment. If he (we) did get that payment the customer got a significant discount the next time. Subsequently I've met many charming Israelis but my initial impressions were not good and it explains why I have reservations about many Israeli actions in the West Bank.
There is I think one difference between Jewish activists and both Palestinian and Trans ones. Many Jews are in fact productive members of society who greatly improve life and civilization as a whole so it is possible to accept Jewish activists as an unwanted side of a generally good group of people. I'm not sure if there are any positive accomplishments from Palestinians and vanishingly few from Trans people - Deirdre McCloskey comes to mind - and AFAICT she is embarrassed by trans activists
We are surely coming to the point in Western nations where we are being asked to host all sorts of people who are not the natives. We are being asked to put up with things as side effects of some notion of productivity Anglosphere countries obviously do not need. We ourselves are among the most productive groups in history. Why import or tolerate anyone we consider alien?
I think this is the dilemma we are now facing. Why have anyone in our midst who is not us if it causes all these problems? I suspect this is what will form the basis of a return to nationalism I now see others discussing. The exhaustion of all this is triggering a change of heart.
Ha! Come back in ten years and tell me how that is going. Not a student of history I see. No one voted for the world to move to America. Indeed, it was the subject of considerable debate in the 60s. The magic dirt theory is why the US will balkanize, and it will take Kansas and Georgia with it.
But America didn't vote for the world to move there. Indeed much of the debate in the 1960s was about the issue of demographic change which Americans feared. The world is strikingly unlike the US and is indifferent to its norms.
I do think America will balkanize in time. There may be multiple countries at that stage.
200 years ago America was 13 sparsely populated colonies on the east coast
When did this magical race of Americans take over Kansas, Idaho, Arizona, Texas, Florida and all the other land that is completely empty today?
Are the people who arrived on the Atlantic shores c. 1700 the same people sitting standing laying and doing jumping jacks in Texas or Florida today? Be honest
In your mind an entire continent of vastly different geography is a little spot called “there”. That's because you've never done any work or even going outside, just live in the suburbs.
Just to pick nits: Deidre McCloskey was absolutely involved in the cancellation of J. Michael Bailey after his publication of _The Man Who Would Be Queen_. It lowered my opinion of her considerably.
So you support organizations that seek to silence discourse by harassment and doxing, then wonder why Jews are frequently accused of being thin-skinned and supporting harassment and doxing. Which is exactly the behavior Lorenzo talked about in his article.
For the record, I've got no quarrel with Jews and generally get along well with individual Jews. They tend to be verbally smart and they love to argue, two of my big traits. I reject collective guilt aimed at anyone. No Black person is responsible for any crime they didn't commit; no White person is responsible for slavery that ended 110+ years ago; no Jew is personally responsible for the atrocities in Gaza unless they participated in them.
I'm an Irish-American, but I'd dislike AIPAC just as much if they were the America-Ireland Political Action Committee. My issue is that a foreign power has too much influence over American domestic affairs, not that Da Jooz are running it. Many complaints that Jews try to frame as "anti-Semitism" are simply a valid reaction to bad behavior, and very few of those "anti-Semites", including Lorenzo Warby, have any interest in rounding you up into concentration camps or any ill feelings toward Jewish individuals who aren't acting out.
If somebody calls me out for marching around in the street in an SS uniform (spoiler alert: I wouldn't), that doesn't mean they hate White people. It's because they would rightly think I'm an asshole. Most of the people who are criticizing groups like Canary Mission aren't doing it out of hatred of Jews, they're doing it because they dislike that organization's actions and policies. Their reasoning may be correct or misguided, but it doesn't have to stem from an ulterior Jew-hating motive.
Not at all. It's entirely possible to criticize an individual's bad behavior without taking them as a representative of their ethnicity. I think O.J. Simpson was a murderous wife-beating scumbag and that Whitey Bulger, who led the Boston Irish mob, was a brutal thug and killer. That doesn't mean that all Black men or all Irishmen are dangerous criminals, nor would most sane people jump to that conclusion. Yet many Jews seem to think that any criticism of the ADL, George Soros, etc. is a direct and personal call for yellow stars and cattle cars.
To be fair, there are certainly anti-Semites who will use any controversy as an effort to blame Da Jooz. Most people, including most critics of the ADL, George Soros, and Zionism, think those people are idiots and aren't afraid to say so.
And this sort of “woe is us” “will not take responsibility for any bad behaviour” arrogance is why Jews are now lacking friends. Hamas is not a factor in Western domestic politics and it is contemptible to try and pretend it is. These patterns were in place way before Hamas took over Gaza in 2005.
That I explicitly support Israel’s right to self defence makes your comment even more contemptible.
Like hell Hamas isn't a force in domestic politics. Have you not been watching the news since 10.7.23? Hamas and its evil cabal have infiltrated the US and particularly academia for decades!
You blame Jews for overreacting to little things like 2,000 years of persecution, the Shoah, and mosf recently the attempted genocide of 10.7.23. I find this attitude incomprehensible.
What in the world motivates you to make such preposterous arguments?
As I say in my post: “ Indeed, if you disagree with Jews about something they are emotionally invested in, the responses are often over-the-top, with them treating mere disagreement as a personal—even existential—attack.”
As a regular reader of Lorenzo and although totally lacking in mind-reading skills, I don't think that's what he means. He's interesting and likes learning for its own sake ...
I agree, but what non-Jewish “Centrists” refuse to see is how prevalent and almost systemic George Shay’s attitude is among post-modern Western Jews. Their refusal to see is a logical expression of the Nexus of
He’s pathetic, isn’t he? Put a group down, and then when they object to being put down, you put them down for objecting. Shows the intellect of a fourth grader.
Nonsense. Our streets are filled with Hamas protesters chanting “from the river to the sea” which is code for genocide against Israel. Hardly a sneeze.
The rising incidences of demonstrations that we reasonably assume include pro-Hamas Muslims (but also include airheaded Leftists who don’t support Hamas) doesn’t refute my statement that throughout the West for decades there has been a hairtrigger hypersensitivity to the criticism of Jews.
activists of all stripes are a plague, at least in most cases.
Those you speak of don't represent all Jews any more than rioters represent all US college students. It would be nice if, say, college educated Whites would collectively denounce #Antifa or sane Jews would denounce the few but well placed shrill and self-serving harridans among them, but neither will happen. Neither group is organized or unitized enough to make that possible.
Yet ... consider having Hamas or #Antifa activists (or the Australian counterpart) as your nemesis.
That comment is unintelligible, as are you. Based on a review of your other posts, I cannot figure you out. You don't seem to be a self-loathing Jew or Hamas terrorist supporter, or even a garden variety anti-semite.
For the benefit of your own reputation, I suggest you take down this loathsome piece.
Is this not covered in the piece above? You don't like what someone SAID, so it has to go. We tire of this nonsense.
Do explain your rationale. Where is your commitment to Western liberal norms such as freedom of expression and the role of open debate to both thrash out competing ideas and inform an interested audience? This is a major pillar of Western civilization. It matters, including being exposed to ideas you find objectionable.
Why are you blind to the negative effect this censorious mentality has on the public, especially the Anglosphere? Did you not read the piece? Leading Jews and others with clout in Western nations are now perceived to have abused their position. Above all, they do not play fair and cry victim. This has been noted and is now in decline. It is not being tolerated as it once was.
That said, your comments do seem a good illustration of the problem.
Do you hear me? The author would serve himself well by deleting his apologia for anti-semitism. It is inconsistent with the rest of his published work. I am giving him excellent advice. It seems to me you're a third party to the conversation, so why don't you mind your own business?
He’s hard to figure out, but I’ve said before that Warby is an antisemite. And that is amply demonstrated here. That Helen Dale respects him is an enigma.
I came across Lorenzo's blog in the 2011 timeframe and read him semi-regularly at that time. Then he dropped off of my radar until he and Helen began a new collaboration* about two years ago. From those early days to today I have never seen anything that could be objectively claimed to be antisemitic from Lorenzo. Even here he is constantly qualifying his descriptions to ensure a neutral or balanced explanation for his views.
There are very few writers/analysts who have Lorenzo's breadth and depth of reading, study, and ability to connect facts and communicate them well. He handles information from history, economics, politics, and evolutionary biology/science with a sure hand. Perhaps the Jewish polymath, David P. Goldman, is his equal or superior in such intellectualization. Few others of whom I am aware.
*If you were aware of Helen's introduction to that collaboration, you would know they both faced potential cancellations a few years back, based on crossing some politicos or whatever. Helen had the resources and contacts to swat that away; Lorenzo apparently not - until more recently. A multi-year loss, it appears.
They are certainly going to be among the biggest losers in whatever backlash Woke, progressivism and its absurd policies have wrought.
Jewish support for multiculturalism has always seemed suicidal to me, for example. Only white Europeans are well disposed towards Jews yet many prominent Jews are fanatically committed to opening borders in the few countries they are currently safe. Is it a death wish? It doesn't make sense to me.
I wouldn't go as far as the author in criticisms of Jewish activism, but I think its obvious that Western Jews have scored a huge own goal through advancing the diversity-industrial complex. Supporting creation a large Muslim minority that now dwarfs the Jewish community was either an act of supreme humanism or a giant mistake. That community clearly doesn't reciprocate the spirit and have reverted to tribalism over the issue of Palestine.
I agree, except the last point about them reverting to tribalism over Palestine. They are tribal, always. It is Islam first; all else is second. Palestine is just visible.
But I agree with your broad points. I too am not convinced by the JQ and find it a convenient scapegoat for Western failures. But the prominent role some Jewish intellectuals have played in the decline of Western nations is difficult to fathom. Multiculturalism will never improve the lot of Jews. It just makes them less safe. Only Europeans really tolerate them.
Anyone have a working definition for what a Jew is? National alignment? Cultural alignment? Religious alignment? DNA? Self identification?
The author raises interesting points but given the identity confusion, we are left arguing stereotypes. Seems we need a tighter system of taxonomy; "these Jews, but not those Jews."
Agree that the Lobby has done much harm and needs to go.
Is that not one of the concerns their critics have? They are intentionally chameleons. They don't fully assimilate into a host nation, even after generations, and maintain tribal alliances across traditional boundaries like nationality etc. This infers a tribal advantage while offering cover, all the more so for the ones who adopt Anglo-Saxon names etc.
By that reckoning it is a tribal affiliation based on heritage and not nationality. I certainly am aware of Jews who consider themselves ethnic Jews, particularly if they are not religious.
Seems a tribe would have some points of commonality, like ethnicity, and there is no common ethnicity. Note the refusal of some Jews to accept other Jews as Jews. Again, what is a Jew?
Yes, indeed. It would be more worthwhile to ask a Jew. They seem to know what animates it.
But a tribe needn't be a common ethnicity as in DNA. It could be broader, which is especially likely in a diaspora if they intermix with others and maybe pick up a few new strands along the way.
It is worth noting their linguistic weapon, antisemitism, alludes to an ethnicity. So like the term Anglo-Saxon it has its origin in ethnic identity but has broadened over the years but is still meaningful to those who identify with it. Maybe something along those lines.
As for a gentile like me it is easy. It is people who describe themselves as Jews.
“They don't fully assimilate into a host nation, even after generations, and maintain tribal alliances”
There you go, that’s pure othering and classical antisemitism. The Jew as foreign element that refuses to assimilate. Read my lips: you’re an antisemitic cocksucker. Blocked.
You're a real piece of filth, aren't you? You use the “R” and anti-semitic slurs in one depraved sentence. We see who you are, you disgusting anti-semitic, ableist pig.
Attempted genocide? 🤣 You high? Newsflash, chum, the Palestinians have every right under international law to resist the occupation. More Jews died that day through the "Hannibal Directive" actions of the IDF than Hamas or PIJ or any of the other dozen groups who took advantage of the wall being torn down.
In WW2 French resistance didn't attack German civilians, rape women or kill children. Nor did the Polish (or Jewish for that matter). Its possible to "resist" in a lawful way even if you take up arms.
The last 70 years clearly shows the greatest way to advance Palestinian welfare would have been to simply surrender and work out a deal. Nations lose wars and territory - its a fact of history, Germans have managed to get over it.
“Attempted genocide” is overstating. More like an old school Russian style pogrom.
But still, the October 7 attack was stupid beyond words. I mean, it’s as if the Japanese, instead of bombing Pearl Harbor and attacking battleships, had landed a couple of battalions of marines who proceeded to run around Honolulu raping and murdering civilians, including women and children, and then they withdraw and take hostages. It did everything to piss Israel off and nothing to reduce its military capacity.
The other problem with your argument is that if the Palestinians had wanted a peaceful two-state solution, they could have had it when Bill Clinton was President. They clearly want total victory, and that isn’t in the cards for the foreseeable future. Plus, Gaza wasn’t occupied. They had been left to their own devices
Spare me the Hamas propaganda. Read the Hamas charter which calls for the destruction of Israel, an act of genocide that would make the Holocaust pale by comparison.
You are wrong here. Maybe it isn't a factor in Australian politics, but it certainly is a factor in UK politics with the Labour party having all kinds of issues with pro-Hamass / Palestinian activists. In fact the Labour party lost a number of seats in last year's general election thanks to the issue. Wikipedia says (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_General_Election_2024 ):
"Four independent candidates (Ayoub Khan, Adnan Hussain, Iqbal Mohamed, Shockat Adam) outright defeated Labour candidates as well as one (Claudia Webbe) acting as a spoiler to defeat one in areas with large Muslim populations; the results were suggested to be a push-back against Labour's stance on the Israel–Hamas war and Gaza humanitarian crisis.... In Islington North, Jeremy Corbyn defeated the Labour candidate with a majority of 7,247; Corbyn is a prominent activist for Palestinian solidarity."
I consider that to be a generally accurate summary of the problem
It is also a factor in US politics, particularly with respect to PA governor Shapiro and senator Fetterman
Right after their fun'n games in October '23, their affiliates shut down the Brooklyn Bridge. Then Grand Central Station.
Heck, they had a fan club of at least 1 US President, Jimmy Carter. I believe Barack Obama was another of their fuel stations. O preferred the Ayatollahs over their proxies, if ya wanna be picky.
Not a factor? Perhaps not under their house brand name, but though Qatar and the universities. The whole operation isn't stupid. they've been doing strategy for at least 1400 years. You understand their strategy better than I, and better than the US State Department, so you surprise me here.
If someone believes something is anti semitic to a point where it’s worth addressing or they think it’s extreme enough that they call it out in a brusque way (which let’s face it is the norm now) I’m not sure this qualifies as “monstering” any more than your reaction to it. Since we’re on feminine “feelings” (far as I know men have them too but I am a chick) this article “feels” like something Tucker Carlson would write if he were more educated and the vibe is something like the disturbed but enchanting speech Ryan Gosling gives the reporter in “The Believer.”
There’s much to unpack here not sure I can address it all bc it’s so long but don’t think I’m deliberately ignoring sections and I’ll try not to decontextualize. I’m old and whereas I used to remember really well what I read I think I’m now in a constant cycle of misheard lyrics. Not knowing what you think of Tucker Carlson I should be more specific about what I mean (and I won’t even get into the possibility that he is foreign funded and influenced bc I think he started his 180 well before that may have impacted him) he’s harboring a lot of discontent and I believe misplaces it grotesquely which is common to humans when they have discontent. The rhetoric around cancel culture is so disturbing to me everything including the attempts to soften or reverse it because it generally misses the ugliest aspect- the hanging mob. Granted sometimes people do bring this on themselves knowing what world we are living in now (though it’s overwhelmingly more often not the case) and rarely there are some real characters who double down and with exceptional ignorance but the issue is not whether someone deserves it or not. It isn’t. The issue is do we really want every play of our lives judged as the only play in our lives. Suddenly everyone is on candid camera but they’re not smiling. The death of civility is a whole other Megillah and I do attribute the lions share of blame to social media bc they run algorithms of anger and echo chambers and they cemented the positive feedback for anything and everything. It’s so extreme some platforms won’t allow negative feedback.
Starting with your contention that Jewish activists are undermining opinions of Jews, you do realize if there’s any truth to this it’s pretty much on the right and despite Trump’s not that wow of a victory (though I think it was a wow that people were so pissed about govt caused inflation and woke excess that he managed to get alot of small majorities and impressive movements that weren’t majorities) the right is not culturally dominant.
It’s interesting you note that Jews are disproportionately involved in noxious intellectualism. I wouldn’t disagree with that but you disproved your own point by noting they’re involved disproportionately in intellectualism and you’re still dealing with a minority subset.
It’s not ever useful to point out that often stereotypes have some truth that’s kind of a duh bc it’s the extreme distortion of these stereotypes and the inescapability and narrowness that is ascribed to them that leads to virulent hatred. You’re just this thing and can’t be anything else and every member of your group is this narrow despicable thing. It’s worth repeating that many of the stereotypes ascribed to Jews and life choices made by Jews were born of the restrictions in their lives from anti semitism. Of course Marxism would greatly appeal because it falsely claims it will annihilate ethnic and religious hatreds by basically annihilating religion and pretending there isn’t any diversity of culture by trying to eradicate culture which would include similar cultures but still not approved by the Russian Soviets which was not successful in creating a monoculture across their vast empire. But their heavy handedness did keep people in line.
I am no expert in this granular level of Jewish history but I don’t imagine there was that little interaction and trade and exchange between Jews and their neighbors anywhere urban and to say without any type of evidence that Jews were perturbed by civility just comes off as an absurdity. Now I will tell you my personal experience having been to Israel twice. To me it was like a different people the second time. Someone I know used to say “tact wasn’t invented yet,” referring to Israelis. I found the lack of bs refreshing the commonplace rudeness not so refreshing but note French people are also saddled with this depiction of stark impoliteness and having not been there I can only report someone else’s report that the French were positively lovely excepting bus drivers and the like but again that’s one short experience. On my second visit to Israel and this doesn’t mean the no nonsense had died but the rudeness seemed to have all evaporated. Again a very cursory observation but it was my experience. The only thing I can say about it id and yid is they rhyme and there’s nothing in that excerpt that’s remotely substantive. The intellectuals you cited were very knowledgeable of European thought and influenced by it a point where you even noted earlier on Marx’s influences so that part is quite confusing.
That a majority of Jews vote democrat (though less than African American and other ethnic groups) this doesn’t equate Jewishness and leftism. There are historical reasons for these allegiances and as history is showing now, realignments can and do happen.
You can’t really make a point if Jews and Jewishness and Judaism is suddenly definitely something that is way more complex and shifting that you’re making it out to be and it’s no wonder that even that alone gives off a pretty strong anti semitic scent. Jewish culture is NOT monolithic and the joke about Israel having millions of prime ministers is there to indicate the diversity of views.
There’s a whole unsubstantiated section on bankrupt Jewish media. Now let’s start with the obvious- media has gone bankrupt like crazy since the internet. There’s no evidence whatsoever of some disproportionate bankruptcies of Jewish media. I’m flummoxed about the no civil discourse and disagreement (see Talmud!)
You have to see that it’s bigoted by any definition to say what all Jews will do if you say something undesirable about something they’re emotionally invested in. First off, really? Every single Jew. Or 99%. And what places you outside this definition? I think you reacted pretty emotionally to some of the comments and frankly it’s understandable if you believe them unfair. When things are charged let’s face it MOST people react emotionally. It takes calming down and patience in real life to attempt a rational discussion over heated stuff something most people really won’t bother with online. There’s an old far side cartoon I loved where a bunch of cowboys come back stuffed with Native American arrows and one remaining cowboy says to the other “now calm down. Let’s see what they had to say to bill.”
And then we come to Jewish power. Cultural power. Which specifically? But when non Jews wield power which they must numerically we don’t hear anywhere near as much about them. I don’t have statistics on who comprises what percent of this or that intellectual vanguard (desirable or undesirable) but again by sheer numbers you’ll have alot of nonJews. Why are they not losing friends? If you’re trying to point out that the monsters the left has created is eating its own then point it out but understand that you should be sticking to the ideologies. So many people have been eaten. It is insanely simplistic to ascribe the current wellspring of antisemitism to left wing ideologies Jews exclusively created and cultural power they exclusively wielded harmfully. I just read an article that was aiming to assess how much woke and anti western and sexualized curriculums have permeated even lower grades and this person claimed with some evidence but not enough that’s it’s really gotten around. That’s not going to happen all across America from coastal Jewish influence. It’s a phenomenon but not easy to understand except that it’s been decades in the making. The only way I can explain a “fatties for Palestine” tee is to remember not being able to look anywhere without seeing a Guess triangle on someone’s ass. Sweet conformity. But I can say very confidently that the corruption of the universities was already well under way decades ago and very minimal alarms were sounded at pretty troubling signs. So none of this happened overnight and certainly not with October 7th. I can’t finish this I’m tired af and I have groceries coming tomorrow morning and apparently they don’t feel they need to put my ice cream in something insulating. But I think the main point id like you to reflect on is you are painting very broad strokes making very generalized assertions and allegations often without evidence or with minimal or exaggerated evidence and if you’re understandably pissed off at the ugly shit our society is facing now and the west is facing now don’t take it out on Jews. That’s a dark and familiar road. People are complex and I think even judeophiles can recycle some pretty obnoxious and even dangerous tropes. I think in our dark times that people who appreciate what western civilization has distilled for humanity(and no I don’t gloss over the bad but if anything self reflection and mitigation have morphed into belated useless self flagellation) should focus on this because it is a long battle ahead
Speaking (or writing) as a Moderate anti-Semite myself, I'm dismayed by how most (if not all) the anti-Semites I encounter online seem extremist -- not to mention a bit dim-witted. Thus, for example, the problem with the oral manifesto out of Ryan Gosling's mouth in *The Believer* ("disturbed but enchanting" is a good description) is double-edged: On the typical anti-Semitic side, it's going too far to impute all Jews with the cultural & spiritual toxin he's noting; however, on the Judaeophiliac side, that doesn't mean there isn't some truth to what he's saying either. The rub is disentangling the mutually opposing biases from *die Judenfrage*.
Oooh, this is dangerous territory, either way, whatever view one takes. I know what you're saying, I know you're not an antisemite, I know that there are many fair points and observations in here.
Some have behaved badly, there have been mis-steps and over-reactions, some have been overly censorious and, in amongst the taking down of genuinely bad players (Irving) there has been times when they have over-stepped (we both know who your prime example is). I don't think that can be denied. I've lived through these same years - I've seen it. I know what you're saying, I know you're not an antisemite, I know that there are many fair points and observations in here.
And, as my Mum used to say, they did blow up the King David Hotel...
But, but, but... while Debkin (above) rambles somewhat (as she acknowledges, and as I'm also doing), I think she's roughly right - your brush here is too broad and risks doing the same yourself, equating the mote in your eye with a beam in others. I think there's a very good case that "the Jewish Lobby" (I understand your careful and correct expansion - but I'll go with your point that "Everyone knows what and who you mean"), while sinning, are "in service" to a people far more sinned against, which you don't examine or acknowledge sufficiently.
I know what you're saying, I know you're not an antisemite, I know that there are many fair points and observations in here. But Tim Snyder's construction of the mechanism of the Holocaust does seem to suggest that mechanism and result is sui generis, but can't rule out that widespread slaughter by a different route couldn't happen. You risk being interpreted as saying pogroms aren't so bad, because at least they aren't the Holocaust.
There's the complexity of the political beliefs of the largest part of the diaspora in the US, which ties them to the (recently) more naturally censorious left, offset against the largest part of the genuine neocon movement also being intellectual Jews from the left after being mugged by reality. Both groups have views on Israel, which diverge and converge. It defies simple categorisation, and doing so does not do it justice.
And, I really am sorry to suggest this, I think you dance far too close to the line of stereotypes and tropes ("They lack a culture of civil disagreement" is a good example) used in too cavalier a fashion - which, we must acknowledge reality, is just something that can't work on this subject. I know what you're saying, I know you're not an antisemite, I know that there are many fair points and observations in here. But I think you over-egg the pudding, because if you don't, you don't have a thesis. Just a bit further specifically on "culture(s) of civil disagreement" - I could name a dozen publications and media organisations that, while having major Jewish roots and involvement, are the epitome, the very definition of civil disagreement, discourse and rational argumentation. Was the Glenn Loury affair poor? Yes. Is it truly indicative? I don't think so.
Lastly, is just the timing. To pick on Ukraine again - have they been ideal citizens of the free western world since their liberation in the 90's? Of course not. Is this now the time and the place to be litigating that? Or is there something larger and more important to do first? And does what they've done, any mis-steps they've made, justify what's being done to them? The mote/beam difference is so enormous there as to make the discussion laughable, which is why so much of the Vance/Carlson position would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.
I think you risk doing the same thing. I know what you're saying, I know you're not an antisemite, I know that there are many fair points and observations in here. In a busy world, one of my most reliable heuristics is, 'Lorenzo is almost certainly right". I am honestly in awe of and somewhat humbled by your reading, your erudition, and your great talent for synthesis and explanation - I do not take issue with your formulation here lightly. But let's work it out after, maybe. Disarm the bomb before arguing about who should have the credit.
...in amongst the taking down of genuinely bad players (Irving) there has been times when they have over-stepped...
===
This is why the defence of Jews and progressives is failing. This was discussed in the piece above. You are trashing longstanding Western norms, in this case the right to free expression. Irving wrote books, he wasn't invading countries or committing acts of violence. Nor was he encouraging others. Those who found his writings objectionable were free to write their rebuttals etc. That is precisely what people did in the 70s and 80s as I understand it.
The "taking down" of people some disagree with was also covered in some detail, including the inappropriateness of these actions in a civilized nation. And yet it falls on deaf ears. But it has been noted and the natives of European states in Europe and North America are tired of the bullshit. That's why it is being challenged and will ultimately be dismantled. That won't end well for advocates of take downs.
The incessant need to shut down any and all criticism is obviously not a position of strength, and it is precisely this weakness people are now examining. It is long overdue.
"The incessant need to shut down any and all criticism is obviously not a position of strength ..."
That should be the position we all take as we openly reject bad behavior. And it is obvious to anyone with a real ability and interest in honest debate and eventual political persuasion. But such debate prep takes real effort (aka hard work) and it is so much easier to just shout and pout.
Indeed, much shouting online. But it is also an amazing platform to discuss ideas in depth. A great place to dampen hate and increase genuine understanding. A true multimedia experience to help people learn. So I have no time for those who wish to ban people from having their say.
"Arguing with Libertarians is very similar to arguing with Marxists. They both use Theory to judge evidence and, when in trouble, refer back to their Theory."
Ah, quotes as rebuttals. A little tedious, but understandable given your position.
Why not address the point made? I would be interested to know your views. Many miss the championing of free speech, a longstanding norm that has been trashed in recent times. Cancel culture which you advocate is one of the activities Warby discussed and rightly condemned. This is drawing unwelcome scrutiny to those who advocate it. I doubt this will end well for them etc etc.
Easy to understand. Happy for you to argue against the position if you wish.
My comment was directed at Lorenzo's piece - I've read everything he's written for the last 2+ years, so I have a fair idea of his position and where it comes from. And I know I can comment in good faith, and he will treat it as such if he reads it. I know he's better read and more intelligent than me, because he's shown it, and he's lived life, so I'm very interested in his thoughts and what he writes.
I don't know anything about you or your position, except you've claim to be a free speech absolutist while consigning the entire university sector to the dustbin of history at a stroke. So I'm not of a mind to spend any time on finding out more.
I used to think I was a free speech absolutist, but now know I'm not and so am interested in discussing the spectrum as I work out where I fit, what I can abide, and what I can't, and why. Not interested in debating something I know is a nice and occasionally useful theory that crashes on takeoff.
I am not a free speech absolutist. I don't think anyone is. But the casual endorsement of ruining lives because someone writes things we dislike is not something I can get behind. Calling for harm to others, even whole groups? Sure. Happy to have some common sense restrictions based on things like harm, which is the traditional norm even in the US.
But your own words betray an acceptance of something Warby was actually writing about, not to mention the chilling effect it is having on debate. Stopping people you classify as bad. So enough of the straw man nonsense. I was challenging what you actually wrote. Cancellation culture, including the illustrations in the article, are disastrous for Western nations and should not be tolerated. I suspect they won't be for long.
As for the university sector. It doesn't need any help from me. A collapse seems imminent as its adherents have done too little to curb the extremists. I doubt they can survive in their current form. They seem to have lost their purpose. I see more and more shun them. Time will tell. But I believe now we would largely benefit from their collapse given the damage they are doing.
" I am honestly in awe of and somewhat humbled by your reading, your erudition, and your great talent for synthesis and explanation ..." [your = Lorenzo]
Ditto. And you phrased it much better than I did. :-)
Also great civil back and forth between you and Spiff.
The subsection of the Synagogue of Satan that are Jewish Zionists minions would genocide other Jews as readily as they would any other non-minions of Satan, as readily as they are now geocoding Gazans.
As it has been argued that pre-WWII Zionist worked with Hitler to drive European Jews to the middle-east to pleasure world to create israel, but many that were able to leave Europe went to the USA instead where they were refused entry at first not because of antisemitism as our false History claims but because powerful forces working with Zionists hoped to force them to middle-east.
Jewish Zionists were willing to kill other Jews in huge number - to Coin all those Jewish tragedies for their profits and goals as readily as they would to us or anyone else not a minion of Satan.
The amount of kvetching in the comments is astronomical. News flash retards, jews, their behavior, and their communities can be studied and critiqued same as everyone else.
Also you can dislike the behaviors of a community without hating every single member of it. Also you can dislike a community without wanting to end it, ffs.
The article rings true to my own smell test, and I’m happy you stuck your neck out to talk about it Lorenzo. The jewish FEAR culture needs to fucking die. The culture of everyone being out to get them specifically and specially for no reason.
Let us call this piece what it is: a cloaked apology for antisemitism dressed in academic cosplay. With the thinnest varnish of pseudo-scholarship and “civilizational analysis,” Warby attempts to naturalize hostility toward Jews—first by blaming Jews for their own persecution, then by constructing a fantastical genealogy of intellectual and political sins, all laid at the feet of a people he claims to both admire and resent.
Where to begin? The essay begins with the horror of October 7, which it rightly identifies as a crime against humanity—but then pivots instantly to framing Jews as deserving of a backlash for the behavior of Jewish intellectuals, activists, or vaguely defined “networks.” The implication is unmistakable: Jews are not hated for being Jews, but for how they act. This is an age-old antisemitic trope, dressed up with new jargon and YouTube citations.
The central thesis—that “the Jews” lost cultural standing in the West because of their support for liberal norms, multiculturalism, or “wokery”—is both incoherent and disingenuous. It collapses the distinction between individual Jews, Jewish communal institutions, and the state of Israel into one undifferentiated target. Then it blames that conflated entity for everything from cancel culture to the Holodomor, as if historical literacy and moral responsibility were optional.
To claim that Jews are “now finding themselves increasingly friendless” is not an observation; it is a threat, and a justification. Warby’s essay constantly veers into the classic language of euphemism and plausible deniability—“market-dominant minorities,” “censoriousness,” “lack of civility”—terms that have long been used to rationalize the persecution of those who are too visible, too successful, too inconvenient to the dominant cultural narrative.
He further indulges in a grotesque historical revisionism by drawing a straight, unbroken line from the Talmud to Marx to campus speech codes. The idea that Freud, Marx, or Strauss are evidence of a “ghetto mindset” bent on global ideological domination is not analysis—it is conspiracy theory in footnotes. And the use of Regino of Prüm or medieval ethnography does not make it any less so.
Warby’s lament that Jewish advocacy has backfired into “anti-Jewish pogroms of the Anglosphere” is perhaps the ugliest maneuver of all: using the actual rise of antisemitism as proof that Jews overplayed their hand. It is a move familiar from centuries of bigotry—you made us hate you. When social media mobs harass Jews or antisemitic violence increases in the wake of geopolitical conflict, it is not a tragic failure of society but, in Warby’s telling, poetic justice.
This essay’s most transparent rhetorical device is projection. The author accuses Jews of “demanding control over public discourse,” while writing thousands of words demanding that Jews relinquish any such influence. He accuses Jews of enforcing ideological purity, while branding anyone who disagrees with him as a victim of Jewish overreach. He claims Jews imported Middle Eastern conflict into Western politics—without once considering the global entanglements of imperialism, oil politics, and Western complicity in regional violence.
Even Warby’s forays into anthropology, such as describing Jews as a “fragment society” without martial honor, are not sociological observations—they are thinly veiled accusations of cowardice, disloyalty, and alienness. This language is deeply familiar to anyone who has read the 19th-century antisemitic playbook. What is remarkable is the way he attempts to repackage it as civilizational critique, rather than raw prejudice.
Perhaps most insidious is the essay’s rhetorical trick of constantly distinguishing between “Jews” and “Jewish activists,” “Israel” and “Israel supporters”—only to erase that distinction in every substantive claim. This maneuver allows the author to maintain plausible deniability, to claim he is not antisemitic while clearly fueling antisemitism.
In the end, this essay is not a serious critique of Jewish communal politics, of Zionism, or of identity activism. It is an extended grievance screed—a polemic against Jewish presence in the public sphere, the academy, and progressive politics. It seeks not to debate but to delegitimize, to define Jews (and “Jewishness”) as fundamentally incompatible with liberal norms, Western culture, or public civility.
No amount of appeals to “martial honor” or “cultural cohesion” can obscure what this is: a long, bitter attempt to tell Jews to sit down, shut up, and take the blame for the very hatred being turned against them.
History teaches us what happens when these ideas are normalized. And history, despite Warby’s best efforts, will not be rewritten to justify bigotry in footnotes.
Your argument seems to be that the whole article is just Mr Warby being antisemitic, and emitting a bunch of antisemitic tropes that have no validity whatsoever.
His core thesis is that Jews as a group have suffered reputational harm and are losing influence as a result of excessively aggressive attempts (by a minority of activists perhaps?) at censorship and general control of public discourse. It's an observation which I think is accurate.
Do you think he has a case, or is that also just antisemitism in action?
Not at all sure you make your case with tropes like "Jews are physically weak so make up with sly deviousness".
"The way Jewish activists have monstered people is classic relational aggression, which is a form of aggression that most suits physically weaker people"
Nor do you help you case by confusing Jew qua Jew with Jew qua intellectual. There are lots of Jewish intellectuals because of Judaism's reverence of learning and modern activism and anti-speech rules are children of intellectualism where Jews are over-represented.
I might also observe that the slide from "people don't like Jews because the Jewish Lobby behaves badly" into "look at transactivism" as if that crazed panichas anything at all to do with the Jewish Lobby or indeed Jews.
My my, someone got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning.
I think that playing the "antisemitism" card combined with personal vituperation rather than providing a counter argument means that you've lost. And by "lost" I mean that none of Mr Warby's audience pay any attention to your aggressive gibberish.
That may be so, but let me point something out. First of all, I’m indifferent to what you have to say. Second, Mr. Warby‘s audience consists largely of dolts. Meaning, at least those who agree with him.
To accuse Jews of constantly “playing the antisemitism card” when the world is in fact awash with antisemitism, as it has been for thousands of years – wait for it – is itself antisemitism, albeit a mild form.
The audience are dolts. Right. That's why you're compelled to come here and repeatedly demonstrate your immaturity and emotional dysregulation, sparaying abuse around to convince a bunch of dolts of...something.
The "fuck you" finale is a demonstration of a failure of reason and intellect. It makes you appear even more like an ill-tempered and undisciplined 3 year old, if that's possible.
re: Lionel Shriver "Muslims try to get people sacked but are no good at writing letters so they do loud noisy protests instead." Now _there's_ a problem with Chat-GPT and the other AI buddies which I hadn't considered ....
I liked things a lot more when the people wanting to enlarge my penis, dispose of money only to people with my exact last name, and the like were all emailing me in very poor English. Now I get the same in academic Swedish, and it is jarring.
Spam used poor grammar intentionally. It weeds out smart people who are less likely to fall for scams. The AI they use is unable to make these mistakes without very sophisticated prompt engineering. The grammatically perfect spam will result in considerably less success for the spammers.
That is an aspect of the situation I had not considered.
Maybe we should use such examples as merit testing for entry into the Ivy schools?
Perhaps the biggest tell is a funky URL on a link, but when they have your email, target your email, bank, credit card, phone, and internet accounts they can come pretty close to spoofing even those of us on the lookout for suspicious messages and contacts.
There are times when I wish I could just reach through my phone line (now a fiber cable) and throttle the bastards behind this criminal activity. They have taken a marvelous technology for communication and mass joint learning and compromised it for mere greed and deviltry.
As do young students. Here in Britain the protests can be pretty blunt. Absolute hatred of advanced Israel versus those poor brown people they are massacring. Tanks and missiles against boys with stones. That is the message, and it has been embraced by the young as far as I can tell.
And yet photos from Gaza often show strong, well-fed young men, cowardly hiding their faces behind a nearly full face mask, but also outfitted in top of the line infantry military kit, weapons, and uniforms [even knee pads!!]. (And I don't mean the IDF!)
This is a unfortunately too rare but completely necessary perspective.
With regards to the "JQ", commentators on the right usually fall into two categories:
Those that ignore the toxic cultural products coming from the Jews, and those that resort schizophrenic conspiracy theorising a-la protocols of the elders of Zion to explain the corrosive influences.
Jews are extremely prominent in pushing leftist insanity. But they don't form some kind of secret cabal trying to destroy society in order to reign over the ashes. They are molded by their history and circumstances as all peoples are.
I also want the option of not being welded to it. They can have their own state and good for them but their problems can’t be our problems when we gain jack shit for it.
I'm curious if Jewish sensitivity to criticism is really different than any other group sensitivity.
(It is somewhat of a new phenomena, btw- pretty much post-holocaust. If you read some earlier Jewish writers and how they describe Judaism and Jews, it would fit like a glove on many antisemitic writing today.)
The only exception I see clearly (in the modern world) is something like white people, who are willing to selfhate in numbers, and I think this is the exception. And even then, I'm not sure if its in large numbers.
Judaism "lacks a culture of civil disagreement"? The whole history of Judaism is disagreement, debate, dialogue, argumentation. Rabbis have argued over the meaning of the laws for thousands of years. Dispute and debate is an intrinsic part of Jewish culture and religious identity. I once heard Baroness Neuberger dismiss the idea of a Jewish conspiracy as *a priori* implausible; "as if we could agree on ANYTHING!"
Was the implication not that they lack a culture of civil disagreement with others? They perhaps like debate within the family, but their response to criticism from outside, particularly with Northern Europeans, is usually neurotic not rational. Absolutely no debate about the holocaust is tolerated, for example. Even some criticism of Israeli policy is labelled as antisemitic. Many are quick to use the antisemitic card too, a clear ploy to stifle debate and write off even thoughtful opponents as extremists. This happens quite frequently and prominently.
I would be interested to know your thoughts.
I think systematic and universal persecution over thousands of years suggests that the reaction to criticism is not neurotic and I generally think the idea that antisemitism is overplayed, is overplayed. You can see otherwise normal rational people saying things about Jews and Judaism that they wouldn’t dream of saying about any other minority.
Before I sobered up, I got thrown out of at least 109 bars and parties. Since I quit drinking (nearly 30 years ago) and took responsibility for my bad behavior, I haven't been booted from a single establishment. There's a lesson in there if you're willing to hear it.
One guy in the tribe suggests that the religious leaders could be a bit more introspective, so they murder him.
They won't change.
Those bars were being very antifilanitic. You should kill their children.
Before you sobered up, you were a fucking asshole. After you sobered up, you are still a Jew Hating asshole. I tell you what, fuckstain, since all of you dumb fucks give this "109 countries" bullshit. I will send you $100 if you can NAME these supposed "109 countries." I'll keep my money, because you can't, you fucking loser. Do you still sleep in Mommy's bed at night and play Special Little Half-Hard Soldier with her? God, you losers are tedious.
No need to send me money, just shoot a $100 donation earmarked for feeding Palestinian children in Gaza and we can call it even.
Once you come up with the list, shitbag.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/comments/yde20p/i_found_this_list_of_everywhere_jews_were/#lightbox
"109" was an understatement. If this list of expulsions, compiled by a Jewish scholar, is correct, the number is well over 350.
Name the 350, then, and I will treble the reward.
[“Treble" is fancy smart Jew word for multiplying a number by 3.]
Jewish cock-sucking drone detected.
I think many people would argue the opposite. In Western nations there seem to be no other identifiable groups who have a special term to describe criticism of them, and have wielded it so effectively and comprehensively. The Muslims have begun to use the term Islamophobia in a similar way, as a method to stave off criticism, although with less success.
Antisemitism is almost unique, and, again, the very widespread perception is it has been overused to such an extent people are becoming exhausted with those who do so. Western nations are passing laws to attempt to make "antisemitism" illegal. This seem unprecedented. It is also causing a backlash as people ask why this group should be above criticism.
Do you not witness these things yourself?
Racist. Homophobic. Transphobic.
Who? You? Why is this? Do you hate other races, gays and trans people? Why?
Examples of special terms for other groups.
Until you stop using J-e-w and Israel interchangeably you aren’t helping. The nation was divided. They have stayed divided and sent into separate captivities. Israel and then Judah were scattered and divorced divorced.
Who is doing this?
Almost everyone uses these terms to describe practitioners of judaism and ignore the ten tribes who went into anonymity. The Shemites were scattered, there names changed, and then they are forgotten while they are erased from history and strangers appropriate their name. https://godskingdom.org/studies/books/the-struggle-for-the-birthright/
The Jew will always tell you what happened to him but he will never tell you why.
I will tell you why, fuckhead. Because Perpetual Losers and Failures at life, who come from a long line of fucking losers, always look for someone to blame. Often, the object of their ire is the hardworking (to the loser, "lucky") Jew in town who makes the loser feel like what he is, a loser. Whenever a critical mass of losers gets together and spouts Jew Hating bullshit at one another, they then lash out in pogroms. I just told you, loser fuckhead and you, loser who probably fucks his own mother for basement rent, are a typical Jew Hating Coward who won't even post your bullshit under a real name.
You people...
It’s different when we do it.
I thought so, Anonymous Coward Pussy. Muting you. Not blocking - because you may get your head out from between your mother's thighs long enough to learn something from your betters. That would be ALL we people.
Have you ever considered if almost everyone you interact with over thousands of years gets upset with you, maybe the problem is *you*?
What does that say about Jewish opinions of Goyim and what hate they freely voice in Hebrew? It's a racist religion from the ground up.
Debate about the holocaust. What’s to fucking debate?
This Warby guy sure brings out the knuckle draggers
QED
Where are the bodies?
https://x.com/nightfire0/status/1671730416653598720
https://x.com/BabyD1111229/status/1900190149872332870
Why do you have to "debate" with anybody?? utterly foolish
Nothing foolish about debate. It helps us learn different points of views, and is important for others to learn as they witness debates.
It's idle and lazy - go farm some land
And yet here you are... Do as I say but not as I do?
I mean challenging anyone in their personal life or religion
Go farm some land
We’re not even organized or agreeable enough to conspire!
Fake but funny
Lorenzo is a loser. This is my last response to this ignorant bigot's stupid rehash of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Bondi Beach Edition. If my grandmother and the three before her were all worn-out whores, I'd try to deflect attention from my own failures, as well. I used to live in Sydney and get there occasionally for business. I'll give Lorenzo a heads up, so he can test his "Jews are weak" theory. What a fanny this scumbag is.
A little oversensitive, are we?
You talk a LOT of shit for such a coward 🤡🤣🤣🤣
Chris, I am generally on your side; in this case, I think a bit more introspection might be worthwhile. I have been following Lorenzo for some time and have found him to be very thoughtful. In this case, I would like to know more about his accusations. Certainly I know that some Jews can be intemperate on things - when you see, over and over, the eagerness of people to hate you and try to kill you, you get very sensitive to it. That some of us might be overreacting to threats is certainly possible, and that some of that overreaction might tire some of our potential allies is possible.
I'm not saying that I agree, but it is at least worth considering.
I do think that antisemitism is different, as it generally doesn't start with "Jews do X so I hate them" but rather, "I hate Jews, so I believe that they do X." Prager and Telushkin's book, "Why the Jews" makes a very good case for this phenomenon, and those I see ramping up the hatred are almost always inclined to hate us for the reasons they cited, plus one more than wasn't current when they wrote it: CRT and its implications.
But I rather think that the major reason that antisemitism has increased so much is a combination of CRT and the money sent to the universities by Qatar and other countries that are true believers in radical Islam.
BTW, I would point out that it wasn't Jews who invented the term "antisemitism": it was promoted by Wilhelm Marr, who found that hating people for their religion wasn't acceptable in his time, but hating them for their ethnicity was perfectly fine.
I’ve got all the introspection I need. This Jew Hating shitbird @Lorenzo Warby is not worth the trouble. What is this shit? “Hey, I think some Jewish people maybe were not nice, so the girls at the Nova festival who were gang raped until their spines snapped and they died deserved it.”
Fuck Lorenzo and anyone who thinks his stupid ignorant bullshit is worth paying attention to.
He didn't say that. It is important to look at what he actually claimed, if for no other reason than to refute it. Spouting anger doesn't help, here.
I've been reading him for some time, and most of his posts dealing with Jews are complimentary, not hateful.
Good bye. Either you are a sneaky little Jew Hating shit or are too stupid to read. Muting you.
I guess I should unsubscribe from his substack...
So, Lorenzo argues that Jews tend to overplay the “we are unique victims” card. And you respond by playing the unique victims card.
On the other hand, many of the responses to you are utterly demented and genuinely antisemitic.
"And you respond by playing the unique victims card."
That's not what he did. Jews need to stop acting how they are acting or they are going to have problems.
"On the other hand, many of the responses to you are utterly demented and genuinely antisemitic."
Being "antisemitic" is not demented. People are tired of how the jewish people act.
"one jew once said jews dont do [bad thing], that means jews dont do [bad thing]!!!!!!!"
You're about to be monstered, Lorenzo. Your post will turn out to be a self-fulfilling prophecy, although those who monster you will fail to see the paradoxical nature of their response. I shouldn't laugh, but I couldn't help it, and looking through the comments, some aspects of the post are certainly writ large.
This dipshit Lorezno is not a monster. He's just one more garden variety Aussie Jew Hater.
He wishes he could be monstered. That would imply this piece has significance. It’s yards of blather to little effect. And the effect there is is garden variety bigotry.
Remember when he said
"You attack people’s social connections under a guise—including to yourself—of moral and social concern. This makes the aggression more effective and hides from yourself, and others, that what you are doing is aggression."
Congratulations on being an example!
Ooooh — big “gotcha,” little man. I recognize bigotry against us when I see it, even if it’s disguised with yards of superfluous, blah blah blah. Evidently you don’t.
I disagree, I've been reading Lorenzo's posts for a while now, and he is always fair.
So fuck you, too, Jew Hater. Muting you. Life is too short to deal with loser putzes like you.
Lol, you are reinforcing the views expressed in the article. To address the Jew hater comment, I grew up with Jews for most of my youth. I had many Jewish friends who I admired and looked up to. I am an avid supporter of Israels struggle against the Palestinian barbarians and have written articles showing why there will never be peace in the region.
Primarily due to Palestinian indoctrination, a destructive nationalism and Militant Islam.
This does not mean that Judaism or Jewish people that live on different waves of the political spectrum are or should be immune to criticism, or have it pointed out where Judaism or Jewish culture have cultivated particular traits that may or may not be in their interest and be seen by outsiders as against their interest, causing exasperation.
The article was a genuine attempt, pointing to features that are in certain circles, not necessarily circles that do not like Jews, blowing holes in support and by disinterest, people are retreating from a fight that they may feel has nothing to do with them.
Your response will only alienate supporters with your infantile and childish tantrums. Grow up.
Well stated, sir. Very similar to my own views. And many other people. I could count on one hand the number I have encountered who have some active dislike of Jews, and most of them are not white Europeans.
As Thomas Sowell once stated, when you are used to privilege, equal treatment can feel like prejudice. Some light scrutiny does everyone the world of good. But some groups do not operate with such good graces; scrutiny for thee but not for me, the point Warby was making.
I am so "grown up" that I realize there is no talking to lying losers like you. I only bother to respond, NOT for you because you can't fix stupid, but for anyone else who might be reading.
Muting you now. How is the dial up connection in Mom's basement, BTW?
Go back to your goon cave, coward.
Such a gutless coward...so typical of Israeli mentality
Sounds like he touched a nerve. Do you denounce the genocide of Palestine?
This sounds like another medieval disputation full of holy oaths and magical words stuttering
Palestine is a delusional fantasy
Israel will be gone before it's 100th birthday, Palestine is forever.
lol no
"Palestine" is a favela like any other 3rd world slum
Palestine was a thriving metropolis before 1948, look at the photographs 🤷♂️ They don't lie. You sound increasingly unhinged and detached from established reality.
Seek therapy.
There is no genocide of Fakestinians. One cannot “genocide” a landmass.
You know how to know there is no “genocide” of Fakestinians? There are still very many living, fat-assed, well-dressed Fakestinians in Gaza.
One thing our fans and detractors alike agree on is that Jews are good at what we do.
So if we WANTED to kill all the Fakestinians in Gaza, they would have been dead by 12 October 2023.
Hence - no genocide in Gaza.
Any other questions, Anonymous Coward Jew Hater? You all try this same “You’re overly sensitive” or “he touched a nerve,” but you’re too much of a pussy bitch to share your real name. Does Mommy let you come up from her basement to play “Special Snuggles We Don’t Tell Drunk Daddy Passed Out on the Couch About?” You know, the way you’ve been doing since you were eight?
"Good at what you do"? Stealing land and killing women and children? Bravo, such cowardice since the time of Masada...
So BRAVE to block me, maggot 🤡
Coward? 😁 Come to Toronto, I'm Shane Cameron.
I'll meet you anytime and make my views clear.
You ball, maggot.
I went to Toronto and shouted "Shane Cameron" everywhere
People looked at me like I was crazy
Maybe it was the protective helmet, and the drool on your chin?
Good at what, paedophilia? Israel has more sex criminals and perverts than any nation on earth. All you export is weapons , spyware, and pedophiles. Gtfoh 🤣
Never forget, maggot...when Iran PASTED Nevatim airbase with over thirty hypersonic missiles, bypassing the "Iron Dome", David's Sling, Arrow, Patriot Pac3, SM2 and SM6, they proved that they don't need nuclear warheads to wipe Israel off the map. They can simply carpet tiny little Israel with dirty bombs and strike Dimona, too...irradiating Israel for centuries. Bye bye "Jewish State", forever.
I *really* hope Israel.is stupid enough to attack Iran.
They can also commit suicide, you can too ofc
Sure, so can you 🤷♂️ The sooner the "jewish state" is gone, the better for all in the region.
lol no
Aussie Jew Hater? ALL you Aussie types are weird.
A fascinating piece. Here in Britain we are seeing the obsession with Palestine among the political class trigger exhaustion in the public. We don't care for the pro-Palestine or pro-Israel bias. Both emphasize how many alien ideas animate the political and media classes, not to mention their academic friends. It has triggered scrutiny on who is pushing these agendas.
It seems to be accelerating some kind of wake up call. At least among my own circle. On a broader note the use of extreme victim status for minorities, women, gays, trans and all the rest was never going to be a longterm success. Our whole mentality is based on some form of individualism and resilience. That's what we admire and aspire to.
The endless woe is me victimhood of entire groups who receive considerable privilege has tested our patience. I suspect it is not only the Jews who will feel the effects of this but everyone unable to maintain our societal norms, including the radical feminists and aggressive immigrant groups. Big changes ahead I suspect.
It is clear, however, the Jews truly have lost their place in the West. And it can't all be blamed on Muslim immigrants. The youth see them as oppressors. That was always a dangerous game to play. I suspect we will eventually see blowback against academia itself. How long before the leading universities are destroyed as instruments of imperial oppression? These are dangerous tools to unleash on the impressionable after all.
If the universities, as currently formed, disappear it would be little loss IMHO - https://timworstall.substack.com/p/so-abolish-the-universities-then
I agree. No great loss to humanity. I am familiar with the sector and they are truly lost. Every fad imaginable is entertained, and you sense the grownups are going along with it all so they will be shot last.
I think I may have been fortunate that I was exposed first to Jews, then to Israelis and only after that to Jewish activists.
I did find the activists continual claims that the Holocaust was uniquely evil to be irritating since it was trivially and obviously untrue. You could point to the Armenian genocide for one, and now I know enough to point to numerous others. That's not to say it wasn't evil - it was - the point is it wasn't unique. The activists never accept that and always "play the man not the ball" in attacking the person who says something like that rather than making a logical case for why the Holocaust was uniquely evil.
Mind you my experience with Israelis was also initially negative and, TBH, extremely reminiscent of my experience with Arabs. Basically I found both continually seeking to treat every interaction, every conversation sometimes, as a competition where one side and only one side "wins" with no concept of win-win. Specifically I noted that in business negotiations they always sought outrageous terms to begin with and frequently tried to stiff the other side at the end. A person I worked with in the early 2000s had a policy of always ensuring that in phased deals with new Israeli customers he always made money by the penultimate phase in the assumption that he was not going to get the final payment. If he (we) did get that payment the customer got a significant discount the next time. Subsequently I've met many charming Israelis but my initial impressions were not good and it explains why I have reservations about many Israeli actions in the West Bank.
There is I think one difference between Jewish activists and both Palestinian and Trans ones. Many Jews are in fact productive members of society who greatly improve life and civilization as a whole so it is possible to accept Jewish activists as an unwanted side of a generally good group of people. I'm not sure if there are any positive accomplishments from Palestinians and vanishingly few from Trans people - Deirdre McCloskey comes to mind - and AFAICT she is embarrassed by trans activists
We are surely coming to the point in Western nations where we are being asked to host all sorts of people who are not the natives. We are being asked to put up with things as side effects of some notion of productivity Anglosphere countries obviously do not need. We ourselves are among the most productive groups in history. Why import or tolerate anyone we consider alien?
I think this is the dilemma we are now facing. Why have anyone in our midst who is not us if it causes all these problems? I suspect this is what will form the basis of a return to nationalism I now see others discussing. The exhaustion of all this is triggering a change of heart.
That could be true in Europe but that's very false in the new world
Nobody has a "lock" on Kansas or Georgia
Ha! Come back in ten years and tell me how that is going. Not a student of history I see. No one voted for the world to move to America. Indeed, it was the subject of considerable debate in the 60s. The magic dirt theory is why the US will balkanize, and it will take Kansas and Georgia with it.
The world voted to move to America
That's why there's Americans
Not a student of geography I see - there are 50 states already
But America didn't vote for the world to move there. Indeed much of the debate in the 1960s was about the issue of demographic change which Americans feared. The world is strikingly unlike the US and is indifferent to its norms.
I do think America will balkanize in time. There may be multiple countries at that stage.
The USA is already multiple countries - there are 50 states!
At least 10 fully distinct geographic regions in a continent size land mass
America voted for the world to move there, by developing thousands of miles in coastline
Are the people who moved to america 100-200 years ago the same as the people moving there now?
Be honest.
200 years ago America was 13 sparsely populated colonies on the east coast
When did this magical race of Americans take over Kansas, Idaho, Arizona, Texas, Florida and all the other land that is completely empty today?
Are the people who arrived on the Atlantic shores c. 1700 the same people sitting standing laying and doing jumping jacks in Texas or Florida today? Be honest
In your mind an entire continent of vastly different geography is a little spot called “there”. That's because you've never done any work or even going outside, just live in the suburbs.
Yes - all land west of the Mississippi and south of the Missouri compromise is outside of the USA
In your mind a whole continent is a little spot called “there”. Why are Cubans getting deported from South Florida?
“Many Jews are in fact productive members of society”
Go fuck yourself, you gasbag
Some are even "essential workers"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5ag8ME4oOY
Hard to deny.
Just to pick nits: Deidre McCloskey was absolutely involved in the cancellation of J. Michael Bailey after his publication of _The Man Who Would Be Queen_. It lowered my opinion of her considerably.
McCloskey is an AGP man... why do you still insist on the pronoun?
Whether the assertions of LW about Jewish activism are correct or not at least there is no dispute Jews are in fact Jews. But men are not women.
Because. Now go away.
I did not know that. Thanks
my oh my
I just realized that putting Zionism in the equation would double the possibilities:
"Jews, then to Israelis and only after that to Jewish activists."
-Jew-Zionist
-Jew non-Zionist
-Israeli-Zionists
-Israelis non-Zionists
-Zionist Jew-activists
-Non-Zionists Jew-activists
-Israeli activists
-Jew activists
Then, another branch: "in favour of Israel/Jews/Zionism"
(...)
That's a lot of fellas and a lot of ideological trends to sort out
I don'''t think I've met any of some of those categories....
Palestinians have good food and material culture
What are examples of “Jewish activists”?
The Anti-Defamation League, Canary Mission, and America-Israel Political Action Committee come to mind immediately.
Canary Mission is great!
So you support organizations that seek to silence discourse by harassment and doxing, then wonder why Jews are frequently accused of being thin-skinned and supporting harassment and doxing. Which is exactly the behavior Lorenzo talked about in his article.
For the record, I've got no quarrel with Jews and generally get along well with individual Jews. They tend to be verbally smart and they love to argue, two of my big traits. I reject collective guilt aimed at anyone. No Black person is responsible for any crime they didn't commit; no White person is responsible for slavery that ended 110+ years ago; no Jew is personally responsible for the atrocities in Gaza unless they participated in them.
I'm an Irish-American, but I'd dislike AIPAC just as much if they were the America-Ireland Political Action Committee. My issue is that a foreign power has too much influence over American domestic affairs, not that Da Jooz are running it. Many complaints that Jews try to frame as "anti-Semitism" are simply a valid reaction to bad behavior, and very few of those "anti-Semites", including Lorenzo Warby, have any interest in rounding you up into concentration camps or any ill feelings toward Jewish individuals who aren't acting out.
If somebody calls me out for marching around in the street in an SS uniform (spoiler alert: I wouldn't), that doesn't mean they hate White people. It's because they would rightly think I'm an asshole. Most of the people who are criticizing groups like Canary Mission aren't doing it out of hatred of Jews, they're doing it because they dislike that organization's actions and policies. Their reasoning may be correct or misguided, but it doesn't have to stem from an ulterior Jew-hating motive.
No?
Not at all. It's entirely possible to criticize an individual's bad behavior without taking them as a representative of their ethnicity. I think O.J. Simpson was a murderous wife-beating scumbag and that Whitey Bulger, who led the Boston Irish mob, was a brutal thug and killer. That doesn't mean that all Black men or all Irishmen are dangerous criminals, nor would most sane people jump to that conclusion. Yet many Jews seem to think that any criticism of the ADL, George Soros, etc. is a direct and personal call for yellow stars and cattle cars.
To be fair, there are certainly anti-Semites who will use any controversy as an effort to blame Da Jooz. Most people, including most critics of the ADL, George Soros, and Zionism, think those people are idiots and aren't afraid to say so.
Barbara Streisand. Sonny Bono. Leslie West playing Mississippi Queen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss1EyyXL4Gk
I can't believe what i’m reading. Obviously you spent a great deal of time blaming the victim. You have played into the hands of Hamas propagandists.
And this sort of “woe is us” “will not take responsibility for any bad behaviour” arrogance is why Jews are now lacking friends. Hamas is not a factor in Western domestic politics and it is contemptible to try and pretend it is. These patterns were in place way before Hamas took over Gaza in 2005.
That I explicitly support Israel’s right to self defence makes your comment even more contemptible.
Like hell Hamas isn't a force in domestic politics. Have you not been watching the news since 10.7.23? Hamas and its evil cabal have infiltrated the US and particularly academia for decades!
You blame Jews for overreacting to little things like 2,000 years of persecution, the Shoah, and mosf recently the attempted genocide of 10.7.23. I find this attitude incomprehensible.
What in the world motivates you to make such preposterous arguments?
As I say in my post: “ Indeed, if you disagree with Jews about something they are emotionally invested in, the responses are often over-the-top, with them treating mere disagreement as a personal—even existential—attack.”
Your stack is a justification and apologies for antisemitism which would fit quite comfortably in a Joseph Goebbels speech.
As a regular reader of Lorenzo and although totally lacking in mind-reading skills, I don't think that's what he means. He's interesting and likes learning for its own sake ...
... which is kinda Jewish.
You're out of order and being a piece of shit. You're using emotional abuse. It's narcissistic abuse. You are exactly the person this essay is about.
I agree, but what non-Jewish “Centrists” refuse to see is how prevalent and almost systemic George Shay’s attitude is among post-modern Western Jews. Their refusal to see is a logical expression of the Nexus of
Mainstream Holocaust Narrative—one’s conscience—one’s virtue-signalling ego.
The author is an apologist for anti-semitism. If you support that, you’re the POS. 💩
He’s pathetic, isn’t he? Put a group down, and then when they object to being put down, you put them down for objecting. Shows the intellect of a fourth grader.
Horseshit. Ashkenazi Jews imported wholesale in Aliyahs from Europe are not Semetic people. The Palestinians are a Semetic people.
You are full of Hamas propaganda (aka shit).
This applies to practically everyone that I ever met in university or many in my working life.
It’s the “if you sneeze at a yarmulke you are Adolf Hitler” argument
Nonsense. Our streets are filled with Hamas protesters chanting “from the river to the sea” which is code for genocide against Israel. Hardly a sneeze.
The rising incidences of demonstrations that we reasonably assume include pro-Hamas Muslims (but also include airheaded Leftists who don’t support Hamas) doesn’t refute my statement that throughout the West for decades there has been a hairtrigger hypersensitivity to the criticism of Jews.
Watching friends, acquaintances and others be viciously monstered by Jewish activists.
activists of all stripes are a plague, at least in most cases.
Those you speak of don't represent all Jews any more than rioters represent all US college students. It would be nice if, say, college educated Whites would collectively denounce #Antifa or sane Jews would denounce the few but well placed shrill and self-serving harridans among them, but neither will happen. Neither group is organized or unitized enough to make that possible.
Yet ... consider having Hamas or #Antifa activists (or the Australian counterpart) as your nemesis.
That comment is unintelligible, as are you. Based on a review of your other posts, I cannot figure you out. You don't seem to be a self-loathing Jew or Hamas terrorist supporter, or even a garden variety anti-semite.
For the benefit of your own reputation, I suggest you take down this loathsome piece.
Is this not covered in the piece above? You don't like what someone SAID, so it has to go. We tire of this nonsense.
Do explain your rationale. Where is your commitment to Western liberal norms such as freedom of expression and the role of open debate to both thrash out competing ideas and inform an interested audience? This is a major pillar of Western civilization. It matters, including being exposed to ideas you find objectionable.
Why are you blind to the negative effect this censorious mentality has on the public, especially the Anglosphere? Did you not read the piece? Leading Jews and others with clout in Western nations are now perceived to have abused their position. Above all, they do not play fair and cry victim. This has been noted and is now in decline. It is not being tolerated as it once was.
That said, your comments do seem a good illustration of the problem.
Who the fuck do you think you are?
It's good to have a wonderful example of the problem discussed in the essay pop up in the comments for the world to see.
"I don't like what you wrote. Delete it for your own good".
George, do you hear yourself?
Do you hear me? The author would serve himself well by deleting his apologia for anti-semitism. It is inconsistent with the rest of his published work. I am giving him excellent advice. It seems to me you're a third party to the conversation, so why don't you mind your own business?
He’s hard to figure out, but I’ve said before that Warby is an antisemite. And that is amply demonstrated here. That Helen Dale respects him is an enigma.
I came across Lorenzo's blog in the 2011 timeframe and read him semi-regularly at that time. Then he dropped off of my radar until he and Helen began a new collaboration* about two years ago. From those early days to today I have never seen anything that could be objectively claimed to be antisemitic from Lorenzo. Even here he is constantly qualifying his descriptions to ensure a neutral or balanced explanation for his views.
There are very few writers/analysts who have Lorenzo's breadth and depth of reading, study, and ability to connect facts and communicate them well. He handles information from history, economics, politics, and evolutionary biology/science with a sure hand. Perhaps the Jewish polymath, David P. Goldman, is his equal or superior in such intellectualization. Few others of whom I am aware.
*If you were aware of Helen's introduction to that collaboration, you would know they both faced potential cancellations a few years back, based on crossing some politicos or whatever. Helen had the resources and contacts to swat that away; Lorenzo apparently not - until more recently. A multi-year loss, it appears.
I hear an accusation, but no supporting arguments. Just name-calling.
Which of his specific claims do you believe to be antisemitic and why?
So this is it. This is the nub of it. You’re scared of those big nasty Jews. This is really about self pity. And you call us narcissists.
Boo hoo.
Time to blame the victim
Jews have created a golem and are now reaping its unintended consequences.
They are certainly going to be among the biggest losers in whatever backlash Woke, progressivism and its absurd policies have wrought.
Jewish support for multiculturalism has always seemed suicidal to me, for example. Only white Europeans are well disposed towards Jews yet many prominent Jews are fanatically committed to opening borders in the few countries they are currently safe. Is it a death wish? It doesn't make sense to me.
I wouldn't go as far as the author in criticisms of Jewish activism, but I think its obvious that Western Jews have scored a huge own goal through advancing the diversity-industrial complex. Supporting creation a large Muslim minority that now dwarfs the Jewish community was either an act of supreme humanism or a giant mistake. That community clearly doesn't reciprocate the spirit and have reverted to tribalism over the issue of Palestine.
I agree, except the last point about them reverting to tribalism over Palestine. They are tribal, always. It is Islam first; all else is second. Palestine is just visible.
But I agree with your broad points. I too am not convinced by the JQ and find it a convenient scapegoat for Western failures. But the prominent role some Jewish intellectuals have played in the decline of Western nations is difficult to fathom. Multiculturalism will never improve the lot of Jews. It just makes them less safe. Only Europeans really tolerate them.
Anyone have a working definition for what a Jew is? National alignment? Cultural alignment? Religious alignment? DNA? Self identification?
The author raises interesting points but given the identity confusion, we are left arguing stereotypes. Seems we need a tighter system of taxonomy; "these Jews, but not those Jews."
Agree that the Lobby has done much harm and needs to go.
Is that not one of the concerns their critics have? They are intentionally chameleons. They don't fully assimilate into a host nation, even after generations, and maintain tribal alliances across traditional boundaries like nationality etc. This infers a tribal advantage while offering cover, all the more so for the ones who adopt Anglo-Saxon names etc.
By that reckoning it is a tribal affiliation based on heritage and not nationality. I certainly am aware of Jews who consider themselves ethnic Jews, particularly if they are not religious.
Seems a tribe would have some points of commonality, like ethnicity, and there is no common ethnicity. Note the refusal of some Jews to accept other Jews as Jews. Again, what is a Jew?
Yes, indeed. It would be more worthwhile to ask a Jew. They seem to know what animates it.
But a tribe needn't be a common ethnicity as in DNA. It could be broader, which is especially likely in a diaspora if they intermix with others and maybe pick up a few new strands along the way.
It is worth noting their linguistic weapon, antisemitism, alludes to an ethnicity. So like the term Anglo-Saxon it has its origin in ethnic identity but has broadened over the years but is still meaningful to those who identify with it. Maybe something along those lines.
As for a gentile like me it is easy. It is people who describe themselves as Jews.
There absolutely is a common ethnicity. There are clear genetic markers.
“They don't fully assimilate into a host nation, even after generations, and maintain tribal alliances”
There you go, that’s pure othering and classical antisemitism. The Jew as foreign element that refuses to assimilate. Read my lips: you’re an antisemitic cocksucker. Blocked.
"Hamas and its evil cabal have infiltrated the US and particularly academia for decades"
OH THE IRONY!!!
I don't know WTF you’re talking about, and neither do you.
Don't project your retardation on to me kikel.
You're a real piece of filth, aren't you? You use the “R” and anti-semitic slurs in one depraved sentence. We see who you are, you disgusting anti-semitic, ableist pig.
This is the sort of shit that made me self hating, fuck off.
Attempted genocide? 🤣 You high? Newsflash, chum, the Palestinians have every right under international law to resist the occupation. More Jews died that day through the "Hannibal Directive" actions of the IDF than Hamas or PIJ or any of the other dozen groups who took advantage of the wall being torn down.
In WW2 French resistance didn't attack German civilians, rape women or kill children. Nor did the Polish (or Jewish for that matter). Its possible to "resist" in a lawful way even if you take up arms.
The last 70 years clearly shows the greatest way to advance Palestinian welfare would have been to simply surrender and work out a deal. Nations lose wars and territory - its a fact of history, Germans have managed to get over it.
“Attempted genocide” is overstating. More like an old school Russian style pogrom.
But still, the October 7 attack was stupid beyond words. I mean, it’s as if the Japanese, instead of bombing Pearl Harbor and attacking battleships, had landed a couple of battalions of marines who proceeded to run around Honolulu raping and murdering civilians, including women and children, and then they withdraw and take hostages. It did everything to piss Israel off and nothing to reduce its military capacity.
The other problem with your argument is that if the Palestinians had wanted a peaceful two-state solution, they could have had it when Bill Clinton was President. They clearly want total victory, and that isn’t in the cards for the foreseeable future. Plus, Gaza wasn’t occupied. They had been left to their own devices
Spare me the Hamas propaganda. Read the Hamas charter which calls for the destruction of Israel, an act of genocide that would make the Holocaust pale by comparison.
You are wrong here. Maybe it isn't a factor in Australian politics, but it certainly is a factor in UK politics with the Labour party having all kinds of issues with pro-Hamass / Palestinian activists. In fact the Labour party lost a number of seats in last year's general election thanks to the issue. Wikipedia says (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_General_Election_2024 ):
"Four independent candidates (Ayoub Khan, Adnan Hussain, Iqbal Mohamed, Shockat Adam) outright defeated Labour candidates as well as one (Claudia Webbe) acting as a spoiler to defeat one in areas with large Muslim populations; the results were suggested to be a push-back against Labour's stance on the Israel–Hamas war and Gaza humanitarian crisis.... In Islington North, Jeremy Corbyn defeated the Labour candidate with a majority of 7,247; Corbyn is a prominent activist for Palestinian solidarity."
I consider that to be a generally accurate summary of the problem
It is also a factor in US politics, particularly with respect to PA governor Shapiro and senator Fetterman
Go fuck yourself, you Jew-baiting ignoramus. Is that polite enough for you?
Right after their fun'n games in October '23, their affiliates shut down the Brooklyn Bridge. Then Grand Central Station.
Heck, they had a fan club of at least 1 US President, Jimmy Carter. I believe Barack Obama was another of their fuel stations. O preferred the Ayatollahs over their proxies, if ya wanna be picky.
Not a factor? Perhaps not under their house brand name, but though Qatar and the universities. The whole operation isn't stupid. they've been doing strategy for at least 1400 years. You understand their strategy better than I, and better than the US State Department, so you surprise me here.
Difficult to believe this is not satire, but here we are.
Don't be silly, he wasn't saying that at all.
If someone believes something is anti semitic to a point where it’s worth addressing or they think it’s extreme enough that they call it out in a brusque way (which let’s face it is the norm now) I’m not sure this qualifies as “monstering” any more than your reaction to it. Since we’re on feminine “feelings” (far as I know men have them too but I am a chick) this article “feels” like something Tucker Carlson would write if he were more educated and the vibe is something like the disturbed but enchanting speech Ryan Gosling gives the reporter in “The Believer.”
There’s much to unpack here not sure I can address it all bc it’s so long but don’t think I’m deliberately ignoring sections and I’ll try not to decontextualize. I’m old and whereas I used to remember really well what I read I think I’m now in a constant cycle of misheard lyrics. Not knowing what you think of Tucker Carlson I should be more specific about what I mean (and I won’t even get into the possibility that he is foreign funded and influenced bc I think he started his 180 well before that may have impacted him) he’s harboring a lot of discontent and I believe misplaces it grotesquely which is common to humans when they have discontent. The rhetoric around cancel culture is so disturbing to me everything including the attempts to soften or reverse it because it generally misses the ugliest aspect- the hanging mob. Granted sometimes people do bring this on themselves knowing what world we are living in now (though it’s overwhelmingly more often not the case) and rarely there are some real characters who double down and with exceptional ignorance but the issue is not whether someone deserves it or not. It isn’t. The issue is do we really want every play of our lives judged as the only play in our lives. Suddenly everyone is on candid camera but they’re not smiling. The death of civility is a whole other Megillah and I do attribute the lions share of blame to social media bc they run algorithms of anger and echo chambers and they cemented the positive feedback for anything and everything. It’s so extreme some platforms won’t allow negative feedback.
Starting with your contention that Jewish activists are undermining opinions of Jews, you do realize if there’s any truth to this it’s pretty much on the right and despite Trump’s not that wow of a victory (though I think it was a wow that people were so pissed about govt caused inflation and woke excess that he managed to get alot of small majorities and impressive movements that weren’t majorities) the right is not culturally dominant.
It’s interesting you note that Jews are disproportionately involved in noxious intellectualism. I wouldn’t disagree with that but you disproved your own point by noting they’re involved disproportionately in intellectualism and you’re still dealing with a minority subset.
It’s not ever useful to point out that often stereotypes have some truth that’s kind of a duh bc it’s the extreme distortion of these stereotypes and the inescapability and narrowness that is ascribed to them that leads to virulent hatred. You’re just this thing and can’t be anything else and every member of your group is this narrow despicable thing. It’s worth repeating that many of the stereotypes ascribed to Jews and life choices made by Jews were born of the restrictions in their lives from anti semitism. Of course Marxism would greatly appeal because it falsely claims it will annihilate ethnic and religious hatreds by basically annihilating religion and pretending there isn’t any diversity of culture by trying to eradicate culture which would include similar cultures but still not approved by the Russian Soviets which was not successful in creating a monoculture across their vast empire. But their heavy handedness did keep people in line.
I am no expert in this granular level of Jewish history but I don’t imagine there was that little interaction and trade and exchange between Jews and their neighbors anywhere urban and to say without any type of evidence that Jews were perturbed by civility just comes off as an absurdity. Now I will tell you my personal experience having been to Israel twice. To me it was like a different people the second time. Someone I know used to say “tact wasn’t invented yet,” referring to Israelis. I found the lack of bs refreshing the commonplace rudeness not so refreshing but note French people are also saddled with this depiction of stark impoliteness and having not been there I can only report someone else’s report that the French were positively lovely excepting bus drivers and the like but again that’s one short experience. On my second visit to Israel and this doesn’t mean the no nonsense had died but the rudeness seemed to have all evaporated. Again a very cursory observation but it was my experience. The only thing I can say about it id and yid is they rhyme and there’s nothing in that excerpt that’s remotely substantive. The intellectuals you cited were very knowledgeable of European thought and influenced by it a point where you even noted earlier on Marx’s influences so that part is quite confusing.
That a majority of Jews vote democrat (though less than African American and other ethnic groups) this doesn’t equate Jewishness and leftism. There are historical reasons for these allegiances and as history is showing now, realignments can and do happen.
You can’t really make a point if Jews and Jewishness and Judaism is suddenly definitely something that is way more complex and shifting that you’re making it out to be and it’s no wonder that even that alone gives off a pretty strong anti semitic scent. Jewish culture is NOT monolithic and the joke about Israel having millions of prime ministers is there to indicate the diversity of views.
There’s a whole unsubstantiated section on bankrupt Jewish media. Now let’s start with the obvious- media has gone bankrupt like crazy since the internet. There’s no evidence whatsoever of some disproportionate bankruptcies of Jewish media. I’m flummoxed about the no civil discourse and disagreement (see Talmud!)
You have to see that it’s bigoted by any definition to say what all Jews will do if you say something undesirable about something they’re emotionally invested in. First off, really? Every single Jew. Or 99%. And what places you outside this definition? I think you reacted pretty emotionally to some of the comments and frankly it’s understandable if you believe them unfair. When things are charged let’s face it MOST people react emotionally. It takes calming down and patience in real life to attempt a rational discussion over heated stuff something most people really won’t bother with online. There’s an old far side cartoon I loved where a bunch of cowboys come back stuffed with Native American arrows and one remaining cowboy says to the other “now calm down. Let’s see what they had to say to bill.”
And then we come to Jewish power. Cultural power. Which specifically? But when non Jews wield power which they must numerically we don’t hear anywhere near as much about them. I don’t have statistics on who comprises what percent of this or that intellectual vanguard (desirable or undesirable) but again by sheer numbers you’ll have alot of nonJews. Why are they not losing friends? If you’re trying to point out that the monsters the left has created is eating its own then point it out but understand that you should be sticking to the ideologies. So many people have been eaten. It is insanely simplistic to ascribe the current wellspring of antisemitism to left wing ideologies Jews exclusively created and cultural power they exclusively wielded harmfully. I just read an article that was aiming to assess how much woke and anti western and sexualized curriculums have permeated even lower grades and this person claimed with some evidence but not enough that’s it’s really gotten around. That’s not going to happen all across America from coastal Jewish influence. It’s a phenomenon but not easy to understand except that it’s been decades in the making. The only way I can explain a “fatties for Palestine” tee is to remember not being able to look anywhere without seeing a Guess triangle on someone’s ass. Sweet conformity. But I can say very confidently that the corruption of the universities was already well under way decades ago and very minimal alarms were sounded at pretty troubling signs. So none of this happened overnight and certainly not with October 7th. I can’t finish this I’m tired af and I have groceries coming tomorrow morning and apparently they don’t feel they need to put my ice cream in something insulating. But I think the main point id like you to reflect on is you are painting very broad strokes making very generalized assertions and allegations often without evidence or with minimal or exaggerated evidence and if you’re understandably pissed off at the ugly shit our society is facing now and the west is facing now don’t take it out on Jews. That’s a dark and familiar road. People are complex and I think even judeophiles can recycle some pretty obnoxious and even dangerous tropes. I think in our dark times that people who appreciate what western civilization has distilled for humanity(and no I don’t gloss over the bad but if anything self reflection and mitigation have morphed into belated useless self flagellation) should focus on this because it is a long battle ahead
Speaking (or writing) as a Moderate anti-Semite myself, I'm dismayed by how most (if not all) the anti-Semites I encounter online seem extremist -- not to mention a bit dim-witted. Thus, for example, the problem with the oral manifesto out of Ryan Gosling's mouth in *The Believer* ("disturbed but enchanting" is a good description) is double-edged: On the typical anti-Semitic side, it's going too far to impute all Jews with the cultural & spiritual toxin he's noting; however, on the Judaeophiliac side, that doesn't mean there isn't some truth to what he's saying either. The rub is disentangling the mutually opposing biases from *die Judenfrage*.
I started to read your comment, but the wall of text and run-on sentences don’t help. Paragraphs are your friend.
Oooh, this is dangerous territory, either way, whatever view one takes. I know what you're saying, I know you're not an antisemite, I know that there are many fair points and observations in here.
Some have behaved badly, there have been mis-steps and over-reactions, some have been overly censorious and, in amongst the taking down of genuinely bad players (Irving) there has been times when they have over-stepped (we both know who your prime example is). I don't think that can be denied. I've lived through these same years - I've seen it. I know what you're saying, I know you're not an antisemite, I know that there are many fair points and observations in here.
And, as my Mum used to say, they did blow up the King David Hotel...
But, but, but... while Debkin (above) rambles somewhat (as she acknowledges, and as I'm also doing), I think she's roughly right - your brush here is too broad and risks doing the same yourself, equating the mote in your eye with a beam in others. I think there's a very good case that "the Jewish Lobby" (I understand your careful and correct expansion - but I'll go with your point that "Everyone knows what and who you mean"), while sinning, are "in service" to a people far more sinned against, which you don't examine or acknowledge sufficiently.
I know what you're saying, I know you're not an antisemite, I know that there are many fair points and observations in here. But Tim Snyder's construction of the mechanism of the Holocaust does seem to suggest that mechanism and result is sui generis, but can't rule out that widespread slaughter by a different route couldn't happen. You risk being interpreted as saying pogroms aren't so bad, because at least they aren't the Holocaust.
There's the complexity of the political beliefs of the largest part of the diaspora in the US, which ties them to the (recently) more naturally censorious left, offset against the largest part of the genuine neocon movement also being intellectual Jews from the left after being mugged by reality. Both groups have views on Israel, which diverge and converge. It defies simple categorisation, and doing so does not do it justice.
And, I really am sorry to suggest this, I think you dance far too close to the line of stereotypes and tropes ("They lack a culture of civil disagreement" is a good example) used in too cavalier a fashion - which, we must acknowledge reality, is just something that can't work on this subject. I know what you're saying, I know you're not an antisemite, I know that there are many fair points and observations in here. But I think you over-egg the pudding, because if you don't, you don't have a thesis. Just a bit further specifically on "culture(s) of civil disagreement" - I could name a dozen publications and media organisations that, while having major Jewish roots and involvement, are the epitome, the very definition of civil disagreement, discourse and rational argumentation. Was the Glenn Loury affair poor? Yes. Is it truly indicative? I don't think so.
Lastly, is just the timing. To pick on Ukraine again - have they been ideal citizens of the free western world since their liberation in the 90's? Of course not. Is this now the time and the place to be litigating that? Or is there something larger and more important to do first? And does what they've done, any mis-steps they've made, justify what's being done to them? The mote/beam difference is so enormous there as to make the discussion laughable, which is why so much of the Vance/Carlson position would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.
I think you risk doing the same thing. I know what you're saying, I know you're not an antisemite, I know that there are many fair points and observations in here. In a busy world, one of my most reliable heuristics is, 'Lorenzo is almost certainly right". I am honestly in awe of and somewhat humbled by your reading, your erudition, and your great talent for synthesis and explanation - I do not take issue with your formulation here lightly. But let's work it out after, maybe. Disarm the bomb before arguing about who should have the credit.
...in amongst the taking down of genuinely bad players (Irving) there has been times when they have over-stepped...
===
This is why the defence of Jews and progressives is failing. This was discussed in the piece above. You are trashing longstanding Western norms, in this case the right to free expression. Irving wrote books, he wasn't invading countries or committing acts of violence. Nor was he encouraging others. Those who found his writings objectionable were free to write their rebuttals etc. That is precisely what people did in the 70s and 80s as I understand it.
The "taking down" of people some disagree with was also covered in some detail, including the inappropriateness of these actions in a civilized nation. And yet it falls on deaf ears. But it has been noted and the natives of European states in Europe and North America are tired of the bullshit. That's why it is being challenged and will ultimately be dismantled. That won't end well for advocates of take downs.
The incessant need to shut down any and all criticism is obviously not a position of strength, and it is precisely this weakness people are now examining. It is long overdue.
"The incessant need to shut down any and all criticism is obviously not a position of strength ..."
That should be the position we all take as we openly reject bad behavior. And it is obvious to anyone with a real ability and interest in honest debate and eventual political persuasion. But such debate prep takes real effort (aka hard work) and it is so much easier to just shout and pout.
Indeed, much shouting online. But it is also an amazing platform to discuss ideas in depth. A great place to dampen hate and increase genuine understanding. A true multimedia experience to help people learn. So I have no time for those who wish to ban people from having their say.
"Arguing with Libertarians is very similar to arguing with Marxists. They both use Theory to judge evidence and, when in trouble, refer back to their Theory."
Ah, quotes as rebuttals. A little tedious, but understandable given your position.
Why not address the point made? I would be interested to know your views. Many miss the championing of free speech, a longstanding norm that has been trashed in recent times. Cancel culture which you advocate is one of the activities Warby discussed and rightly condemned. This is drawing unwelcome scrutiny to those who advocate it. I doubt this will end well for them etc etc.
Easy to understand. Happy for you to argue against the position if you wish.
It wasn't a rebuttal.
My comment was directed at Lorenzo's piece - I've read everything he's written for the last 2+ years, so I have a fair idea of his position and where it comes from. And I know I can comment in good faith, and he will treat it as such if he reads it. I know he's better read and more intelligent than me, because he's shown it, and he's lived life, so I'm very interested in his thoughts and what he writes.
I don't know anything about you or your position, except you've claim to be a free speech absolutist while consigning the entire university sector to the dustbin of history at a stroke. So I'm not of a mind to spend any time on finding out more.
I used to think I was a free speech absolutist, but now know I'm not and so am interested in discussing the spectrum as I work out where I fit, what I can abide, and what I can't, and why. Not interested in debating something I know is a nice and occasionally useful theory that crashes on takeoff.
All the best to you and yours, but no, thanks.
I will make this my final comment.
I am not a free speech absolutist. I don't think anyone is. But the casual endorsement of ruining lives because someone writes things we dislike is not something I can get behind. Calling for harm to others, even whole groups? Sure. Happy to have some common sense restrictions based on things like harm, which is the traditional norm even in the US.
But your own words betray an acceptance of something Warby was actually writing about, not to mention the chilling effect it is having on debate. Stopping people you classify as bad. So enough of the straw man nonsense. I was challenging what you actually wrote. Cancellation culture, including the illustrations in the article, are disastrous for Western nations and should not be tolerated. I suspect they won't be for long.
As for the university sector. It doesn't need any help from me. A collapse seems imminent as its adherents have done too little to curb the extremists. I doubt they can survive in their current form. They seem to have lost their purpose. I see more and more shun them. Time will tell. But I believe now we would largely benefit from their collapse given the damage they are doing.
Hope that clarifies.
" I am honestly in awe of and somewhat humbled by your reading, your erudition, and your great talent for synthesis and explanation ..." [your = Lorenzo]
Ditto. And you phrased it much better than I did. :-)
Also great civil back and forth between you and Spiff.
One funny thing about Israel is Israeli Jews’ stereotypes about non Israeli Jews. They’re, uh, well, what most would call antisemitic.
The subsection of the Synagogue of Satan that are Jewish Zionists minions would genocide other Jews as readily as they would any other non-minions of Satan, as readily as they are now geocoding Gazans.
As it has been argued that pre-WWII Zionist worked with Hitler to drive European Jews to the middle-east to pleasure world to create israel, but many that were able to leave Europe went to the USA instead where they were refused entry at first not because of antisemitism as our false History claims but because powerful forces working with Zionists hoped to force them to middle-east.
Jewish Zionists were willing to kill other Jews in huge number - to Coin all those Jewish tragedies for their profits and goals as readily as they would to us or anyone else not a minion of Satan.
The amount of kvetching in the comments is astronomical. News flash retards, jews, their behavior, and their communities can be studied and critiqued same as everyone else.
Also you can dislike the behaviors of a community without hating every single member of it. Also you can dislike a community without wanting to end it, ffs.
The article rings true to my own smell test, and I’m happy you stuck your neck out to talk about it Lorenzo. The jewish FEAR culture needs to fucking die. The culture of everyone being out to get them specifically and specially for no reason.
Let us call this piece what it is: a cloaked apology for antisemitism dressed in academic cosplay. With the thinnest varnish of pseudo-scholarship and “civilizational analysis,” Warby attempts to naturalize hostility toward Jews—first by blaming Jews for their own persecution, then by constructing a fantastical genealogy of intellectual and political sins, all laid at the feet of a people he claims to both admire and resent.
Where to begin? The essay begins with the horror of October 7, which it rightly identifies as a crime against humanity—but then pivots instantly to framing Jews as deserving of a backlash for the behavior of Jewish intellectuals, activists, or vaguely defined “networks.” The implication is unmistakable: Jews are not hated for being Jews, but for how they act. This is an age-old antisemitic trope, dressed up with new jargon and YouTube citations.
The central thesis—that “the Jews” lost cultural standing in the West because of their support for liberal norms, multiculturalism, or “wokery”—is both incoherent and disingenuous. It collapses the distinction between individual Jews, Jewish communal institutions, and the state of Israel into one undifferentiated target. Then it blames that conflated entity for everything from cancel culture to the Holodomor, as if historical literacy and moral responsibility were optional.
To claim that Jews are “now finding themselves increasingly friendless” is not an observation; it is a threat, and a justification. Warby’s essay constantly veers into the classic language of euphemism and plausible deniability—“market-dominant minorities,” “censoriousness,” “lack of civility”—terms that have long been used to rationalize the persecution of those who are too visible, too successful, too inconvenient to the dominant cultural narrative.
He further indulges in a grotesque historical revisionism by drawing a straight, unbroken line from the Talmud to Marx to campus speech codes. The idea that Freud, Marx, or Strauss are evidence of a “ghetto mindset” bent on global ideological domination is not analysis—it is conspiracy theory in footnotes. And the use of Regino of Prüm or medieval ethnography does not make it any less so.
Warby’s lament that Jewish advocacy has backfired into “anti-Jewish pogroms of the Anglosphere” is perhaps the ugliest maneuver of all: using the actual rise of antisemitism as proof that Jews overplayed their hand. It is a move familiar from centuries of bigotry—you made us hate you. When social media mobs harass Jews or antisemitic violence increases in the wake of geopolitical conflict, it is not a tragic failure of society but, in Warby’s telling, poetic justice.
This essay’s most transparent rhetorical device is projection. The author accuses Jews of “demanding control over public discourse,” while writing thousands of words demanding that Jews relinquish any such influence. He accuses Jews of enforcing ideological purity, while branding anyone who disagrees with him as a victim of Jewish overreach. He claims Jews imported Middle Eastern conflict into Western politics—without once considering the global entanglements of imperialism, oil politics, and Western complicity in regional violence.
Even Warby’s forays into anthropology, such as describing Jews as a “fragment society” without martial honor, are not sociological observations—they are thinly veiled accusations of cowardice, disloyalty, and alienness. This language is deeply familiar to anyone who has read the 19th-century antisemitic playbook. What is remarkable is the way he attempts to repackage it as civilizational critique, rather than raw prejudice.
Perhaps most insidious is the essay’s rhetorical trick of constantly distinguishing between “Jews” and “Jewish activists,” “Israel” and “Israel supporters”—only to erase that distinction in every substantive claim. This maneuver allows the author to maintain plausible deniability, to claim he is not antisemitic while clearly fueling antisemitism.
In the end, this essay is not a serious critique of Jewish communal politics, of Zionism, or of identity activism. It is an extended grievance screed—a polemic against Jewish presence in the public sphere, the academy, and progressive politics. It seeks not to debate but to delegitimize, to define Jews (and “Jewishness”) as fundamentally incompatible with liberal norms, Western culture, or public civility.
No amount of appeals to “martial honor” or “cultural cohesion” can obscure what this is: a long, bitter attempt to tell Jews to sit down, shut up, and take the blame for the very hatred being turned against them.
History teaches us what happens when these ideas are normalized. And history, despite Warby’s best efforts, will not be rewritten to justify bigotry in footnotes.
Your argument seems to be that the whole article is just Mr Warby being antisemitic, and emitting a bunch of antisemitic tropes that have no validity whatsoever.
His core thesis is that Jews as a group have suffered reputational harm and are losing influence as a result of excessively aggressive attempts (by a minority of activists perhaps?) at censorship and general control of public discourse. It's an observation which I think is accurate.
Do you think he has a case, or is that also just antisemitism in action?
Not at all sure you make your case with tropes like "Jews are physically weak so make up with sly deviousness".
"The way Jewish activists have monstered people is classic relational aggression, which is a form of aggression that most suits physically weaker people"
Nor do you help you case by confusing Jew qua Jew with Jew qua intellectual. There are lots of Jewish intellectuals because of Judaism's reverence of learning and modern activism and anti-speech rules are children of intellectualism where Jews are over-represented.
I might also observe that the slide from "people don't like Jews because the Jewish Lobby behaves badly" into "look at transactivism" as if that crazed panichas anything at all to do with the Jewish Lobby or indeed Jews.
What is your argument here? You just restated a few things with no rebuttal.
Obviously as a perennial minority, Jews are “physically weak” meaning they can’t resort to violence to assert themselves.
The Jew is: 1) “physically weak.” Which leads directly to Nazi race science.
And 2) cunning and devious.
It cannot be overstated: this is pure, canonical antisemitism. End of story. Case closed.
Warby: you are scum.
My my, someone got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning.
I think that playing the "antisemitism" card combined with personal vituperation rather than providing a counter argument means that you've lost. And by "lost" I mean that none of Mr Warby's audience pay any attention to your aggressive gibberish.
That may be so, but let me point something out. First of all, I’m indifferent to what you have to say. Second, Mr. Warby‘s audience consists largely of dolts. Meaning, at least those who agree with him.
To accuse Jews of constantly “playing the antisemitism card” when the world is in fact awash with antisemitism, as it has been for thousands of years – wait for it – is itself antisemitism, albeit a mild form.
PS. Fuck you.
The audience are dolts. Right. That's why you're compelled to come here and repeatedly demonstrate your immaturity and emotional dysregulation, sparaying abuse around to convince a bunch of dolts of...something.
The "fuck you" finale is a demonstration of a failure of reason and intellect. It makes you appear even more like an ill-tempered and undisciplined 3 year old, if that's possible.
Sad.
I thought that was an analogy.
re: Lionel Shriver "Muslims try to get people sacked but are no good at writing letters so they do loud noisy protests instead." Now _there's_ a problem with Chat-GPT and the other AI buddies which I hadn't considered ....
I liked things a lot more when the people wanting to enlarge my penis, dispose of money only to people with my exact last name, and the like were all emailing me in very poor English. Now I get the same in academic Swedish, and it is jarring.
Spam used poor grammar intentionally. It weeds out smart people who are less likely to fall for scams. The AI they use is unable to make these mistakes without very sophisticated prompt engineering. The grammatically perfect spam will result in considerably less success for the spammers.
That is an aspect of the situation I had not considered.
Maybe we should use such examples as merit testing for entry into the Ivy schools?
Perhaps the biggest tell is a funky URL on a link, but when they have your email, target your email, bank, credit card, phone, and internet accounts they can come pretty close to spoofing even those of us on the lookout for suspicious messages and contacts.
There are times when I wish I could just reach through my phone line (now a fiber cable) and throttle the bastards behind this criminal activity. They have taken a marvelous technology for communication and mass joint learning and compromised it for mere greed and deviltry.
I hadn't considered the improvements in spam emails we might enjoy, lol. Thanks AI.
The anti-White hatred they have fostered is now backfiring, their imported golems and assorted leftists see them as White.
As do young students. Here in Britain the protests can be pretty blunt. Absolute hatred of advanced Israel versus those poor brown people they are massacring. Tanks and missiles against boys with stones. That is the message, and it has been embraced by the young as far as I can tell.
Strange times ahead.
And yet photos from Gaza often show strong, well-fed young men, cowardly hiding their faces behind a nearly full face mask, but also outfitted in top of the line infantry military kit, weapons, and uniforms [even knee pads!!]. (And I don't mean the IDF!)
Indeed. They have good PR. Today's youth are impressionable.
And in addition to the masks, I forget to mention the dark sunglasses. :-)
Huh. Here in the USA, Jews are now considered "White colonizer capitalists" etc. I guess if you move them around a bit they stop being White.
I just can't understand biology.
Great post.
This is a unfortunately too rare but completely necessary perspective.
With regards to the "JQ", commentators on the right usually fall into two categories:
Those that ignore the toxic cultural products coming from the Jews, and those that resort schizophrenic conspiracy theorising a-la protocols of the elders of Zion to explain the corrosive influences.
Jews are extremely prominent in pushing leftist insanity. But they don't form some kind of secret cabal trying to destroy society in order to reign over the ashes. They are molded by their history and circumstances as all peoples are.
I fully support the Jewish ethnostate of Israel, but I want the same.
I also want the option of not being welded to it. They can have their own state and good for them but their problems can’t be our problems when we gain jack shit for it.
I'm curious if Jewish sensitivity to criticism is really different than any other group sensitivity.
(It is somewhat of a new phenomena, btw- pretty much post-holocaust. If you read some earlier Jewish writers and how they describe Judaism and Jews, it would fit like a glove on many antisemitic writing today.)
The only exception I see clearly (in the modern world) is something like white people, who are willing to selfhate in numbers, and I think this is the exception. And even then, I'm not sure if its in large numbers.